I mentioned in a private post to Harry the other day that personally I am not very interested in Remote Viewing (thus my apparent lack of interest, right? )

Often intuitive perceptions are most easily made based on the feelings or emotions of the "sender." That's the reason, for example, why one of the most common intuitions is knowing when the phone is going to ring, or who's on the other end of the line. There is a feeling connection between sender and receiver.

Remote Viewing is considerably more difficult, in my opinion, as the sender is often attempting to keep emotions out of it, and simply send an image.

For people like me who are more interested in people than objects or places, such exercises as Remote Viewing take a lot of effort, and the payback may not be sufficient.

Jean

I checked out Ingo Swann's site (which you referenced) but only cursorily, until I have more time to read his entire story, which he is still creating on his site. One thing that struck me, was the GRAPHIC that he had, on his site, on /pages/2.html . The first graphic is synchronistically/(non-coincidentally) similar to SAO's graphic for the August RV contest... a columnar structure, just as Sao drew for the August RV.

go to: http://www.biomindsuperpowers.com/Pages/2.html

Ed, will Ingo be attending Psiberdreaming 2004? Could we invite him?

Goshengolly

P.S. Motto for the Moment: "Come to terms with your 'dark shadows' and you shall never fear being 'seen' in the dark, by, or with, your fellow brethren Psychics!!!" (Inspired by Ingo Swann's story/dilemma so far presented on his website. )

Also, by "sweeping your house clean" (ie. letting go) of the "dark shadows", you will enable a "truer intuitive knowing" to surface within yourself. And if you receive visions and impressions and dreams, this way, then you must be just good enough for God! So, then, the time has come to accept this! So, sweep, sweep, sweep, and accept, accept, accept, and ultimately, defy, defy, defy, conventional wisdom, until it leads you to the truth, most awesome and magnificent!!

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Jean (Aug 14, 2004 05:48 p.m.):
Also there's another factor that might affect Remote Viewing that's commonly known among people who work with psychics, and that is the factor of emotions.

For people like me who are more interested in people than objects or places, such exercises as Remote Viewing take a lot of effort, and the payback may not be sufficient.

Jean

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Hi Jean, I'm a bit like you in this respect (i hope to participate next time, and I'm likely to get impressions from the sender as a person, not so much the target) so I wonder if it would be interesting to set up an alternivate RV challenge sometime in which the goal is to get an intuitive (via dreams, or otherwise) impression of a person. It might be fun to try and dream a person someone from the list askes to participate as a tagret? Then this person would have to be somewhere at an appointed time and make notes afterward about where he/she was, what s/he was thinking about, how s/he was feeling, etc. Just an idea!:)
Of course, it might be possible that participants get impressions that link to, ehm touchy subjects...so the sender would have to be prepared for that...;) It might also be someone who's no longer alive, but again, maybe it raises issues of privacy...
WendyWendy

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Wendy (Aug 15, 2004 01:10 a.m.):

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Jean (Aug 14, 2004 05:48 p.m.):
Also there's another factor that might affect Remote Viewing that's commonly known among people who work with psychics, and that is the factor of emotions.

For people like me who are more interested in people than objects or places, such exercises as Remote Viewing take a lot of effort, and the payback may not be sufficient.

Jean

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Hi Jean, I'm a bit like you in this respect (i hope to participate next time, and I'm likely to get impressions from the sender as a person, not so much the target) so I wonder if it would be interesting to set up an alternivate RV challenge sometime in which the goal is to get an intuitive (via dreams, or otherwise) impression of a person. It might be fun to try and dream a person someone from the list askes to participate as a tagret? Then this person would have to be somewhere at an appointed time and make notes afterward about where he/she was, what s/he was thinking about, how s/he was feeling, etc. Just an idea!:)
Of course, it might be possible that participants get impressions that link to, ehm touchy subjects...so the sender would have to be prepared for that...;) It might also be someone who's no longer alive, but again, maybe it raises issues of privacy...
WendyWendy

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Wendy -
We dealt with that issue when we were preparing for the July challenge. We realized that viewers might very well pick up on the sender(s) rather than (or in addition to) the target. And some did! It is likely that this will always be a part of the RV experience, at least until we hone our skills to the point where we can screen that out as "noise". There was also the suggestion that a viewer could tune into the sender early, before the challenge, and then track them psychically to the site. Our response to this suggestion was to put up some psychic walls and blinds to avert that. Don't know how much good it did, but it raised a bit of a ruckus on the Board. But I think that a potential sender, if trying the experiment you suggest, could similarly "wall off" portions of their life which they didn't want pried into. And the sender would also have to rely upon the good will of the viewers that they would not seek to pry into those areas!

Curt

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Curt (Aug 15, 2004 04:44 a.m.):
But I think that a potential sender, if trying the experiment you suggest, could similarly "wall off" portions of their life which they didn't want pried into. And the sender would also have to rely upon the good will of the viewers that they would not seek to pry into those areas!

Curt

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There are reports of previous missions at Alquinte:

http://alquinte.com/en/

Jean, everyone, I do think that it might be nice eventually to turn the RV challenge into something more noble and enlighting than just plain viewing of locations. For example (warning: wild ideas ahead), it seems that many dreamers detest the Bush government. However, he got half the votes, give or take a few hundred. What do you think of the voters for Bush? What do you think of Bush? I think it would be interesting to let people view or dream about what makes political opponents tick. It may turn out that they are very much alike us.

Hmm, well, that sounds more like a completely different project...

Even if Bush looses the election, the USA will still remain divided.

Sorry, this may be going a bit off-topic, but I'm posting it anyway.

Kind regards,

Harry

I don't think that a viewer needs protection. The sender is the focus of all the attention, and some people are more comfortable with that then others.

Leon, just to make sure, what would you fear as a viewer be? It sounds to me that you're doing fine. As you said, it was your first time at a awake viewing.

Harry

To answer a few questions.

Gosh, I enjoyed some friendly and entertaining snail mail correspondence with Ingo a few years back, and I made a real effort to invite him to last years conference both by snail mail and by e-mail. Unfortunately, he did not respond. I know that he chooses to do very few public events, and has quite a lot to occupy his time..

As far as using a sender goes, many RV protocols do not use a sender at all, which given the possibility of telepathic overlay, etc. can actually make the target harder to see because of noise. As I understand it, although the early RV experiments at SRI and elsewhere used senders, today coordinate style RVing seems much more common, especially for those using RV in the real world.

Coordinate System RV Challenges may offer several advantages over sender style RVing - first, you don't need to find a sender - someone willing to put in the considerable amount of time and effort required to do the job well, second, elimination of the noise of telepathic overlay, third, a huge increase in the number and variety of targets available (anywhere in the Universe about which we can get verifiable information), convenience, and no necessary window of opportunity clock time limitation, etc.

I've done a fair number of Dream RVs with some success using both protocols. The coordinate system seems to bring in clearer results - involving a sender just brings in too much often confusing noise from telepathic overlay. However, my knowledge of this, especially in respect to waking RVs, seems far more theoretical than practical. Dale Graff has done many thousands, and could no doubt provide much better first hand information on the advantages and disadvantages of using different RV protocols (I'll e-mail this message to him with a link to the Board - perhaps he will respond)

Still, it might seem fun for Harry to set up some no-sender Remote Viewing Challenges, and see how the results compare to those using a sender.

Ed

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Ed K (Aug 15, 2004 07:16 a.m.):
Hi all -

Still, it might seem fun for Harry to set up some no-sender Remote Viewing Challenges, and see how the results compare to those using a sender.

Ed

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Ed -
Do you suggest that, if Harry agrees to this,that he inform us that he is doing it, or not?

Curt

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Ed -
Do you suggest that, if Harry agrees to this,that he inform us that he is doing it, or not?

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Yes. In fact, not doing so might well make the task harder, as they might try to tune into a non-existent sender, rather than to target # 6GH@*j32 ? I think informing participants would help them focus more effectively, and minimize unnecesary confusion.

Ed

I guess one could wonder when you purposely tune in to try to receive something, if you are not opening yourself to receiving other "stuff". Though I don't know if knowing a name of who is sending would help - isn't it simply the intent to tune in on this particular experience that would focus you?

I think perhapy the intent itself would filter out (at least to some degree) the extraeneous data, but you do bring up a good point. Since you did not do this, but simply meditated, it does seem it would open you to receiving from anywhere rather than somewhere.

But I don't know if it is "dangerous" - perhaps that word is a bit strong? I'd be curious to know what you meant by it, why receiving other stuff would be harmful in any way?

I often, just between waking and sleeping, will get little auditory blips - like tuning into a distand radio with the signal coming in - my mind will be drifting, and suddenly I'll "hear" a phrase, or a sentence. It will have a voice, different boices, like I am overhearing people talking, but just a little blip of it here and there. The "hearing" is not actually aural, but it sounds aural, if that makes sense. lol.

What I'm saying is, it has never seemed threatening to me - occasionally I even recognise one of the voices - usually a relative, someone I know - and I find myself smiling, wondering if those blips are actual conversations going on at the moment.

I've never bothered to control it, to write it down, it's just something interesting to experience - and only happens as I settle down to sleep,before I drift off.

Didn't mean to digress here, just found it curious that you would see "other" input as something to be protected from.

Oops, I just saw the second page on this topic, lol. Lots more discussion, so I will go back and read!

I see the fact that I'm worried about the dangers of RV without protection has brought out questions. It could be that my worries about opening myself up during RV could come from living in South Africa, a country where a person always look over your shoulder. It's a great country, but the crime rate is high and you learn to be careful of strangers. So point number one would be cultural.
Another thing is that I've read many pieces where self - protection during astral travel and/or RV is important.
I know I can't hide from everything, otherwise I would hide under the bed, and go around like chicken little. Yet I have comprehensive car insurance when driving, just in case.
So maybe protection during RV is just that, insurance. It remains to be seen how I'm going to feel about this in a few years time, but it's the journey, not the destination that's important.

Thanks for the replies.

Leon

I regret that I hastily remarked on Ingo Swann's book after a "cursory" peek at his website and remarks... I am half way through his novel and highly recommend it!

Ingo would shudder at my remarks calling anyone a "psychic" who practices remote viewing, or does remote viewing "dreaming," and I think I now understand why.

His theories about the "biomindsuperpowers" is fascinating, enlightening, and challenging to previous held beliefs about human innate abilities. I am so glad to be reading about his journey, and I am happy that he has self-published this novel online.

As for my remarks about "sweeping one's house clean," and accepting "one's dark shadows.." Sometimes I get a little "whimsical" or carried away with my writing, which is great for poetry, but can be confusing if trying to state a point clearly, as on a bulletin board.

When we enter into shared dreaming of any kind, there is a chance that some personal aspects of ourselves, or of our "secrets," can be known. An alternate name for this is referred to as "the Shadow Self," if they are aspects of ourselves that represent us in a less than pleasant light, or are even disowned by our very selves.

People fear "intuitives" or sensitive types because they don't want "shadow material" exposed, and who can blame anyone for this, since the world is full of people who love to find "the log in another's eye," rather than in their own, and then they doubly delight in shredding them into mulch!

But the reality is, the people who are engaging in these mutual psi contests here have no interest in that effort. We are testing our skills, learning, and sharing, for either our own mutual enjoyment and adventure, or to learn the skills necessary to do this properly, and I even dare to say, ethically.

So, as for myself I don't worry too much about the "skeletons in the closet" aspect of sharing my dreams here. First of all, one could only speculate about anyone's skeletons, since the sender (or mutual participant) would have to confirm anything seen to begin with. And frankly, I'm not offering up any of my skeletons to anyone that I don't wish to share them with! <G>

Secondly, by "sweeping one's house clean," by "coming to terms with one's mistakes of the past," you can effectively disempower the demons of your own Shadow Self, which I feel is the best line of protection you can ever possibly offer your very personal, and individual self.

Not to mention, it moves all of that "negative stuff" out of the way, to enable more certain, and "clear" dreaming. That's where I give thanks to "God," whatever "God" might be and figure that I must just be good enough for It, for It then allows me to see.. (which Ingo Swann says is an innate "biomindsuperpower" innate to the human species.) I can live with that.

We are all Human. We are all guaranteed to live to regret some things. We are all guaranteed to celebrate some things. We are all, quite frankly, guaranteed an extraordinary adventure, if we give ourselves permission to experience the extraordinary.

In my mind, I am enjoying "the ride" here on this bulletin board because I have given myself permission to enjoy your company, and to enjoy the experience of sharing dreams amongst this small community of interested dreamers. It is, quite frankly, an amazing opportunity, and unlike any other website I have visited. Yes, it is highly personal, and yes, may likely hold some dark shadow unto itself, but there is no experience of sharing in the world that does not contain that potential risk.

So, stay aware, and even somewhat guarded if you feel the need. At the same time, I would also suggest: "fear not, and enter here," as Buddha so finely suggests in his posture, and pose. Posturing is okay here! I posture alot <g>. I just thank God that I get to learn from this (magic mirror?) sometimes, and get a second chance to come back and explain myself!

<G>

Goshengolly

Well, I wonder why it is that Harry's question and Leon's comments seem to go together in my mind?

Harry's right in his implication that I tend to turn my psi interests more toward the direction of "practical" or "dream activism" events. If you're interested in this kind of thing, you might want to take a look at the web site of the World Dreams Peace Bridge at http://www.worlddreamspeacebridge.org

But asking questions about how we might deal with the Bush government in dream state to me has several elements of what Leon talks about as the need for protection

I mean that only half jokingly. It's not that I have such a strong belief in good and evil, or even that I believe the Bush government has many elements of the latter. But I do think that it's possible in dream state, or in any other altered state, to encounter folks or energies that can be distressing, just as it's possible in waking life. And I think that people who do psi experiments sometimes have difficulty with what Ernest Hartmann calls "thin boundaries" or, put another way, that they have trouble telling themselves apart from the other. Without practice or discernment, this can lead to discomfort or even, in some cases, dis-ease.

So it's not a bad idea to be as self aware as possible, in my opinion, in any of these experiments we are all so fond of doing.

Jean

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Kay (Aug 10, 2004 06:42 a.m.):
Hi Curt,

I had actually been looking at the name Charleston Meadows, wondering if I could link it in some way, but at the time (despite having mentioned Charmouth, and I'll try to find out what the river is called and come back on that) my focus in looking for hits lay closer to the actual target.

Lyme Regis has a river (if you can call it that!) called the Lym. I have always assumed that the name of the town and the river name derive from the same source - but then it might just be one of those things that one takes for granted because one never thought about it! And in saying that I am no nearer to offering any insight to what that source might be! (What is it about typing stuff up while online that makes it come out garbled and sounding as if I were a complete moron?! )

Old Lyme sounds interesting. Perhaps I need to trek down to Lyme Regis at some time when the museum is open, and I could look for old maps at the same time!

And I should return to my work duties now... Shouldn't be here at all...

Kay

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Kay & everyone -
How's this for synchronicity? I spent the day yesterday investigating a stonework site in Killingworth, Connecticut and testifying in favor of preservation at a public hearing there. As I was driving back home it occurred to me that this site is not very far from Old Lyme, in fact I had to go through Old Lyme to get to it. And then it hit me -- this site has a prominent turtle mound, which -- like the turtle in our July RV, faces the winter solstice sunrise. So maybe the two RV experiences were connected after all?

Curt

Curt

I tested the upload function without logging in - it's not available, I got the same screen as you did. In order to upload files, one must be signed into one's account. Then you get an attachment box, with a browse button, to allow you to access the files on your harddrive (or elsewhere, I suppose).

But of course they're all connected!

Kay

In your dreams, Psinderella, in your dreams.

Curt, I love the fact that you are trying to "Save" a sacred Native American site, in a town called "Killingworth!" What a great subtle message in the name of the town, and your effort!

This is great material for the "Lucid Living" topics due to come up at the Psiberdreaming Conference 2004! I think that there is a level of lucid living that teaches one to be aware of synchronous names, labels, dates, and other words that have yet to be fully explored....kind of a highly individualized "embedded code of meaning" that one might recognize. For the most part, the field of psychology condemns this, and calls this phenomenon "ideas of reference." But is this the correct, and ONLY explanation? Hmmmmm....

Goshengolly

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Goshengolly (Aug 18, 2004 03:16 p.m.):
A side note:

Curt, I love the fact that you are trying to "Save" a sacred Native American site, in a town called "Killingworth!" What a great subtle message in the name of the town, and your effort!

This is great material for the "Lucid Living" topics due to come up at the Psiberdreaming Conference 2004! I think that there is a level of lucid living that teaches one to be aware of synchronous names, labels, dates, and other words that have yet to be fully explored....kind of a highly individualized "embedded code of meaning" that one might recognize. For the most part, the field of psychology condemns this, and calls this phenomenon "ideas of reference." But is this the correct, and ONLY explanation? Hmmmmm....

Goshengolly

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Gosh -
One of the advantages which I enjoy in dreamwork is that I have NOT been trained in the field of psychology (I've had an introductory course, taught by Richard Katz, whose interests are far from mainstream) so I am not burdened with some of the usual disciplinary baggage. Then again, I was not trained in the field of North American archaeology, either, so unlike most of the colleagues I met out at the site on Tuesday I don't carry their baggage either -- which includes a vehement denial that such sites could have been built by Indians (their latest theory is that they were built by Yankee farmers at a grog party), or that there is anything to the sacred at all except for rationalization of their subsistence strategy.

Lucid Living -- well, I try to do that! And noticing the connections and synchronicities is certainly part of it!

Curt

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judee (Aug 19, 2004 01:44 a.m.):
Isn't Lucid Living simply being aware and seeing your life similar to a dream? I'm beginning to see the symbols as they occur in my waking life and I find it fascinating. So there is a topic on this in the Conference? Can't wait! - and thanks for the reminder, I haven't signed up yet!

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Judee -
Right, that's what it is. We did a whole panel on this at the IASD Conference in Copenhagen, and my paper from that will probably appear in the Lucid Dream Exchange this Fall. I don't know the whole program for the PDC this year, but Beverly D'Urso (who was also on our panel) led a thread on this topic for last year's conference.

Curt