Kay, thanks for providing this surprising target. Thank you also for the wonderful website you created, with photos, maps, and even a long detailed sender's report. Now, please show us the results!

last updated at Aug 09, 2004 10:06 a.m. (1 times)
Yes, I had the honour of being sender this month! Quite an experience.

Harry was hovering in the background, as the benign angel he is, for any feedback I needed, and I would also like to thank Ed for taking some time, prior to the Challenge, and engaging with me around the significance and identification of structural level hits. I can only hope to have done him – and of course all of the participants! –some justice in my categorisation of hits.

The ones that stand out this time around are Bjo and Goshengolly, both remote viewings; and for structural level hits I would commend Hanny (viewing), Curt (dream) and Sao (viewing and dream). Curt’s submission I think illustrates neatly how the dreaming mind appears to tend to focus on wherever its interest lies, in this case with the archaeological/geological aspects of the location, rather than the target itself!

I have been asked to select the outstanding submission, so I have decided to name Bjo, closely followed by Gosh. Bjo had hits in all four categories, and her submission contained several keywords related to the target’s maritime theme; Gosh submitted many accurate observations with reference to the actual target.

Congratulations to Bjo!

In evaluating submissions I have been actively looking for hits, and if anything ‘erring’ on the side of generosity – in some instances the viewer/dreamer will have to decide for them selves how good a hit theirs was. I have wanted to avoid commending ‘false’ hits, but have taken into account that, in particular, those new to the game (and I, too, rather fit into that category!) are still learning about submitting enough detail.

I did make use of the Psi Dream Key Questionnaire, filled it out while on site (before the sending), and used it for reference later. However, when it came to presenting the target in the context of the challenge I felt that the photographic ‘guided tour’ and the ‘sender’s report’, combined, were better suited to the task of illustrating the target in the online format, and so I am not including the PDKQ in the actual presentation.

The link below will take you to the web pages I created, there are four of them: a photographic ‘guided tour’ of the Target; some Maps; a Sender’s Report; and the Submissions page.

link didn't work, use link/url in next post

For logistical reasons (creating web pages at work but unable to upload from there, so taking copied files and uploading from home) I had to make a cut-off point a few hours prior to the deadline, as to what I managed to put onto the website. So, last minute submissions made after 3.15 pm BST will not be on the web pages.

I won’t be checking the hotmail account again, but will send all participants my email address.

And finally I just want to share my own little precognitive hit around the weekend just gone. The original date for the Challenge had been agreed for Sunday 8 August, since sometime early June. From around the time I had taken the photographs, almost exactly four weeks before the event, I kept seeing myself doing the sending in pouring rain. Then I learned about the Regatta and Carnival, and we agreed to move the Challenge to the Friday instead. Friday was sunny and bright, not unlike the day I took the photos, but Sunday turned out really wet… And you might argue that it’s no big thing to predict it’s going to rain in England… but all that even the meteorologists can say is that is going to rain… not when!

Kay

In your dreams, Psinderella, in your dreams.

http://www.psizygy.com/rv4/rvtarget4.htm

In your dreams, Psinderella, in your dreams.

Terry adds: “the very vivid blue bird looked most like a peacock only it did not have a tail and it was on the floor of a feeding area or kitchen.”

Hannah:

Hi,

I'm not feeling confident about my submission but I thought I would send it anyway... I was working during the sending time and didn't have time to focus until after the fact. I did not get any sense of location or any visual images, but a few words came to mind so I wrote them down ... the words ship, either Darwin or drown, thermostat, and foundation. That's it!

Thanks! Hannah Maxwell

Good for you, Hannah, that you decided to submit!

General location: ‘Darwin’ as a word is similar to Dorset, which is the county of the target location, and also to Devon (target lies very close to the Devon border) so a possible hit.
Specific location: ‘foundation’ could apply to the structure of The Cobb.
Associated themes: ‘Ship’ is a hit in the themes category; ‘drown’ would (sadly) qualify there too; Darwin… possible connotation to the fossil findings of the Jurassic coast, I seem to recall seeing something on TV that the fossil findings shifted things quite radically in the then scientific world.
Other psi hits: --

So, won’t shift the top five, but worth submitting!

the mailbox is now closed.

Kay

In your dreams, Psinderella, in your dreams.

Everyone, thanks for participating these first four challenges. The challenge will skip September and October, to make room for the Psiber Dreaming Conference. Depending on other plans, the challenge will probably return in November or December.

Hannah or anyone else, let me know if you want me to add your address to my announcements mailing list for the RV challenge. I'll do a mailing as soon as plans for the next challenge have been made.

Thank you for what must have been an enormous effort, that's a great site.
I scored a big nothing in this one, but it's the first time I tried awake RV, I usually only send dreams. With the two month rest period that now follows I want to try and improve my RV skills, and maybe next time do better.
To the others who participated, I'm pretty much impressed with the responses. See you all later, I can't wait to read your responses.

Leon

I haven't come across 'Cobb' in similar structures, it's usually pier, breakwaters etc, so my guess is that it's an old term or word that has become a name, for this specific location.

The Oxford dictionary says about 'cob' (skipping meanings to do with male swan and short legged horse): composition of clay, gravel and straw, used for building walls (17th cent., orig. unknown)

A cobble(stone) is a round, water-worn stone - you find many of these on the beaches in the area - used for paving.

Parapet was also used on the tablet (pier and parapet), and Oxford says: low wall at edge of balcony, roof, etc, or along sides of bridge. The inside of the Cobb is tiered, and in low tide one can see some kind of platform on the outside, at the base/water level.

The military use of the word parapet is: defence of earth or stone to conceal and protect troops, esp mound in front of a trench. The Cobb is hardly a low wall, but it does of course serve as a defence (against the battering of the sea.)

Kay

In your dreams, Psinderella, in your dreams.

Any idea why you thought of a dog for your awake RV?

Harry

last updated at Aug 09, 2004 12:40 p.m. (2 times)
Nice work all around! You did an excellent job Kay. I apologize again for my submission being the prototypical RV accountant's nightmare.

I have a lot more to say but not much time at the present.

I do have to mention that I was bitten by a small tiny gray (terrier-like) dog a few days before the challenge, and got a nasty but not too serious little wound on the leg. The little sucker, usually friendly, pierced a nerve just right apparently and it hurt, and still does, surprisingly way more than it seemed it 'should.' As a result, I've been angrily visualizing the little mutt (a friend's) a lot the last week.

Also couldn't help notice Rory's submission almost sounds like an excerpt of my own.

Certainly makes one wonder even if it is a bit beside the point. Sometimes in these challenges I almost have the feeling that my dreams/submissions may be drawn from or influenced by the collective of participants, a kind of 'gestalt result,' as much as from the isolated target/sender(s)...

we are after all, in a way all co-creators of the virtual event...

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Harry Bosma (Aug 09, 2004 10:28 a.m.):
Hannah or anyone else, let me know if you want me to add your address to my announcements mailing list for the RV challenge. I'll do a mailing as soon as plans for the next challenge have been made.

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Thanks so much Kay, I am glad I wasn't too late.

Harry, YES, I would love to receive e-mail reminders. I will be sure to send you my address.

Interesting that so many people are reporting issues with dogs. A poisonous snake bit my oldest dog on the leg the day before the challenge. (I don't know what kind, it would either be a copperhead or rattlesnake based on what is in my area). We found out the day of the challenge that, in fact, it was a snake bite. She is doing well, almost completely back to normal.

I've also wondered, Sao, how much we participants pick up from each other.

Hannah

Thank you for developing an outstanding website, for the results of this contest! Can you package it up for us, to use with the next contests?

I love more than anything to see what all of the "receivers" perceptions are, from their efforts. It is a tremendous learning experience, and an adventure! There is a great deal of "mutual dreaming" and "mutually shared impressions" that come up every time, that lead me to believe that "surely, we do not dream (or RV) alone!

I enjoyed this challenge because I forced myself to follow stricter RV guidelines than I usually do. I forced myself to focus on seeing, and depicting shapes and lines, hoping of course, for some complete "vision," or "picture," of the site, but I knew that first and foremost that I had to be disciplined in the method that Dale Graff teaches for RV viewings. I held little hope of success, but was ultimately pleased that I practiced a little more self-discipline this time around, because in terms of "shapes" I think I did pretty well. But I also learned that my impressions, on the naming level, clinched it for me. Describing the "cobblestone" wall, the lion, the sun, the Military Sargent's emblem, the colliseum type structure, the colors of brown and sand, all of which were "impressions," proved to be valid.

So it seems that "seeing" and "knowing," are two distinct sets of impressions, and both work together somehow, in forming a complete "vision," or "picture" of what we are attempting to remote view.

Well, a little food for thought.

Congratulations everyone! We all picked up on some aspect of Kay's location. It is just awe inspiring to me, each time we do this!

And thank you Kay, for your tremendous effort!

XO,

Goshengolly

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DreamBjo (Aug 09, 2004 04:52 p.m.):
Wow. What fun this all is. Kay, I again learn the lesson of not letting anything be left out. I had the "feeling" the maps were in a museum. So maybe they are in that museum you mentioned near the target. I am continuallt amazed at this work. Thanks for your hard work on this project.
Bjo

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Dear Bjo:

Congratulations to you! I love being in the top Winner's Circle with you!... You, a great "envisioner" of the deep, yet light-filled places of space! Because you offer the best glimpse of clear seeing on this bulletin board! I hope you "know" that. You can teach us here, in a way that others may not be able to do!

Here is my question: How would you best describe the way you synthesized "seeing" and "knowing" as you did in your waking RV? What approach did you take, to "view?"

I think that you have some wisdom to offer us, Dear Bjo. At the same time, I think that the answers to some questions should always remain somewhat "guarded." Perhaps you could hold off on answering my question, until Psiberdreaming III? I think that this is the best "venue" for the answer to my question.

See you then, at Psiberdreaming III, my Dear "dreaming" friend....

XXXOOO

Goshengolly

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Kay (Aug 09, 2004 10:04 a.m.):
And that link didn't work for some reason - here is the url:

http://www.psizygy.com/rv4/rvtarget4.htm[/quote]

Kay -
What an interesting exercise this has turned out to be! I agree with you that I got the lay of the land and the proper orientation of the slope, but got taken away with similarities to a place I knew. If people look very very carefully at my first picture, the figure on the far right is what I looked like -- 30 years ago!!!

I really enjoyed reading everyone else's submissions!

Curt

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Harry Bosma (Aug 09, 2004 10:28 a.m.):
Hannah, I forgot to welcome you the previous time. I'm glad you joined again. It seems to me that you did very well.

Everyone, thanks for participating these first four challenges. The challenge will skip September and October, to make room for the Psiber Dreaming Conference. Depending on other plans, the challenge will probably return in November or December.

Hannah or anyone else, let me know if you want me to add your address to my announcements mailing list for the RV challenge. I'll do a mailing as soon as plans for the next challenge have been made.

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Jajofar (Aug 10, 2004 01:07 a.m.):

Cobb is an archaic word for a seagull, especially a large black-backed one. My guess is that “cobb” was used with another word to denote harbour, (possibly seagulls rest, nest, or place) but the second word got lost with usage.
Regarding cobbles: the bottom of the cliffs between Lyme Regis and Charmouth used to be strewn with cobbles, small and large, and there were usually fossil hunters on the beach with hammers, braking the rounded cobbles for the fossils they contained.
Cheers Jajofar

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Jajo -
You mentioned the Charmouth. Usually that denotes the estuary of a river by that name. Is there such? In which case there might be another connection to the name of the site I saw, which is Charlestown Meadows. The site was so named after residents who came there in the mid-18th century from Charlestown, Massachusetts, which is a deep-water port (currently home to a navy yard). This in turn was named after King Charles I, under whose reign the city of Boston, on the Charles River, was founded in 1629. Is any of the history of the conflict between Cavaliers and Roundheads centered around the target location?

Curt

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Jajofar (Aug 10, 2004 01:07 a.m.):
Hello Kay
Nice photos of Lyme Rregis!
------I haven't come across 'Cobb' in similar structures, it's usually pier, breakwaters etc, so my guess is that it's an old term or word that has become a name, for this specific location.------
Cobb is an archaic word for a seagull, especially a large black-backed one. My guess is that “cobb” was used with another word to denote harbour, (possibly seagulls rest, nest, or place) but the second word got lost with usage.
Regarding cobbles: the bottom of the cliffs between Lyme Regis and Charmouth used to be strewn with cobbles, small and large, and there were usually fossil hunters on the beach with hammers, braking the rounded cobbles for the fossils they contained.
From what I remember from the early seventy’s the beach and the rocks are particularly dismal and dark on a rainy day especially at dusk.
On one lovely summer evening a storm blew up very suddenly and we watched a dramatic rescue on the east side of the harbour. A sailor missed the entrance to the harbour and was saved by the lifeboat seconds before his boat would have been smashed.
I hope this will give a bit more insight into the remote viewing participants.
Cheers Jajofar

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Kay & Jajo -
It just occurred to me to mention that the site which has the closest correspondence (both in age and material culture) to the Charlestown Meadows site is a south-facing site near Long Island Sound, located at the mouth of the Connecticut River in Old Lyme, CT!

What is the origin of the term "Lyme"? I know that British sailors were referred to as "limeys" because they brought lots of the fruit on their voyages to prevent scurvy. But surely it has an older meaning?

Curt

I had actually been looking at the name Charleston Meadows, wondering if I could link it in some way, but at the time (despite having mentioned Charmouth, and I'll try to find out what the river is called and come back on that) my focus in looking for hits lay closer to the actual target.

Lyme Regis has a river (if you can call it that!) called the Lym. I have always assumed that the name of the town and the river name derive from the same source - but then it might just be one of those things that one takes for granted because one never thought about it! And in saying that I am no nearer to offering any insight to what that source might be! (What is it about typing stuff up while online that makes it come out garbled and sounding as if I were a complete moron?! )

Old Lyme sounds interesting. Perhaps I need to trek down to Lyme Regis at some time when the museum is open, and I could look for old maps at the same time!

And I should return to my work duties now... Shouldn't be here at all...

Kay

In your dreams, Psinderella, in your dreams.

And Kay is a baaaad girl, or at least employee... ...holidays are overdue, I think...

Anyway, the river is called the River Char. And here are some links:

http://www.charmouth.org

http://www.lymeregistourism.co.uk/history.htm

Kay

In your dreams, Psinderella, in your dreams.

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Curt (Aug 10, 2004 04:51 a.m.):
Kay & Jajo -
It just occurred to me to mention that the site which has the closest correspondence (both in age and material culture) to the Charlestown Meadows site is a south-facing site near Long Island Sound, located at the mouth of the Connecticut River in Old Lyme, CT!

Curt

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Curt: your connections are AMAZING.
NOW what is it about them? I ask because my mind works in just such a way (but not as thoroughly!!! - but I do notice the same pattern) - it is this method of working of my mind I'm trying to figure out!!
Yours: is it possible that:
1. you "recognized" Lymme Regis in the RV
2. you "saw" it in the same way as we see any "dream" image: i.e. in terms of some possibilities related to you: archaelogy and the US.
3. your "dreaming/rv" mind then weaves these images into a story - the original "seeing" becoming just part of your life story (as most dreams do).
IF something like that is the case then:
1. we need to learn either how to stop the dreaming mind, dreaming over them,
OR
2. we need a method of "interpretation".
BUT what IS the method of "interpretation"? It clearly works very well AFTER the event.
BUT what to do BEFORE the event:
If we are dealing with some else's dream we say "If this were MY dream" and proceed to read the images in terms of "my" knowledge and concerns.
In an RV, what would happen if we tried reading these dreams as "If this were the RVers waking awareness" - i.e. we tried to separate OUT my personal elements?
I am VERY interested in trying to work out a way of "interpreting" RVs as dream (perhaps even RVS) - because my hits are NOT close in a literal sense - but are often quite related "at one remove":
e.g. "popetlog"
When I heard "parapet" my heart beat FAST - that (for my mind) was the connection. Why did I add "log" - perhaps because the parapet at Lymme Regis (and parapets in general) were initially built of logs??? Could I have got anything out of this BEFORE: no, too little, too condensed.
BUT your RV CURT: there is MUCH more meat there! How could you have read it before to make a better guess? What would you have needed to know to allow you to remove the personal and make it more "other"?
I'm going back to re-read everyone's RVs.
I LOVE this hunt!!
AND Kay I LOVE the Englishness of Lymme Regis.
Kathy

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kathy turner (Aug 10, 2004 02:13 p.m.):
BUT your RV CURT: there is MUCH more meat there! How could you have read it before to make a better guess? What would you have needed to know to allow you to remove the personal and make it more "other"?
I'm going back to re-read everyone's RVs.
I LOVE this hunt!!
AND Kay I LOVE the Englishness of Lymme Regis.
Kathy

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Kathy -
Good questions! Let's all remember that Rome was not built in a day. We are only in the fourth month of our experiment (unless you want to count Dale's PDC RV event last year), and already we are developing a better sense of how to go about this. We are learning as we go! I am impressed with how everyone's degree of focus has improved as the months have gone by. We are building something extraordinary here!

Curt

I just wanted to congratulate you on the superb job you did on this RV challenge, not only in choosing a distinctive target, in the painstaking and thorough way in which you presented the target site to participants, but in the effort you put into judging the entries and looking for hits and correlations. You definitely went the extra mile and it shows - which seems all the more impressive as you've never done this before.

As you've seen though, judging can prove especially difficult, as the dream reports (or RV reports) often neglect to properly describe just what the participant experienced in a way that allows an outside party to find, or to judge, the quality of a hit. Participants name objects - presumably circular or semicircular - but neglect to describe their shape, or their color or texture.

Of course, participants can learn to improve the "judgability" of their submissions by learning how, and taking the time , to better describe what they experience in their reports. To do this they need to learn new descriptive skills, and then to mindfully use these skills (as Bjo and Gosh did for example) when writing out and submitting their entries. However, even the best written dream report will retain plenty of ambiguities, and accompanying sketches or illustrations can really help the judging process far more effective and reliable (Sao did an amazing job!).

But as we've seen, especially with Curt's entry, although 20/20 hindsight can bring to light some really amazing hits or correlation's, that 20/20 foresight seems far more difficult. When we write down our dreams, or our RV reports, we decide what to include and what not to include. This process often seems pretty unreliable - so unreliable that the percipient throws out "the psi-baby with the bath water", or instead, writes up a report on the "bath water" after throwing out the "psi-baby".

What can one do? Well to begin, it seems important to at first do ones best to submit formal, comprehensive dream reports. This in itself requires both training - in descriptive reporting - and mindfulness. Later one can use 20/20 hindsight to separate the wheat from the chaff. As the percipients grow in experience, they may find certain cues or qualities that mark psi-content (as Robert Waggoner has done for his precognitive dreams). At this point I'd still recommend that percipients submit comprehensive reports, but that they highlight what they consider the wheat - by using boldface or italics on those sections of the reports, or on those sections of their diagrams. They might also want to include an analysis of what they consider psi-content after the report - this will allow them to get feedback as to the accuracy of there abilities to separate psi-information out before seeing the target. And good feedback facilitates learning!

Ed

Wendy, the one at wanadoo is your current address, right? Thanks for trying to find more Dutch dreamers next time. I'd love to see more people from other countries, and my own country seems a good start.

Harry

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Ed K (Aug 11, 2004 09:18 a.m.):

What can one do? Well to begin, it seems important to at first do ones best to submit formal, comprehensive dream reports. This in itself requires both training - in descriptive reporting - and mindfulness. Later one can use 20/20 hindsight to separate the wheat from the chaff. As the percipients grow in experience, they may find certain cues or qualities that mark psi-content (as Robert Waggoner has done for his precognitive dreams). At this point I'd still recommend that percipients submit comprehensive reports, but that they highlight what they consider the wheat - by using boldface or italics on those sections of the reports, or on those sections of their diagrams. They might also want to include an analysis of what they consider psi-content after the report - this will allow them to get feedback as to the accuracy of there abilities to separate psi-information out before seeing the target. And good feedback facilitates learning!

Ed

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Ed -
This is a really creative suggestion! Maybe you could suggest this as one of the parameters for the PDC RV activities?

If I were to have done the highlighting with my dream (before knowing anything in waking reality about the target), I probably would have highlighted the slope, the south-facing aspect, and the snow cover. Two of these, at least, turned out to be among the aspects that seemed to relate to the target. I probably would have eliminated anything having to do with sneaking onto the site, or archaeology, or the spectral visitation -- these didn't have the feel of being as important as the location itself. The name of the site, while it may have turned out to be significant in retrospect, was actually not mentioned in the dream; I added it to my account by way of explanation. Lillian's ghost simply told me to go to her site and look for more artifacts!

BTW, doesn't the term "artifact" mean a statistical or methodological error in psychological research?

Cheers,
Curt

Ed[/quote]

GREAT Ed.
This shift from trying to see if there is Psi perception, to saying "YES there is and now let me try to work out how to pin point it" is very significant - quite amazing really!!
Kathy

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rannva (Aug 10, 2004 11:43 p.m.):
I think that with enough imagination we all can "feel" some recognition of the place. Especially if we want to. I'm just not sure that is a valid way of doing this sort of thing. But it certainly is fun!

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Rannva - the "feeling" I have sometimes is of quite a different order - it HITS me - it is like my mind and the word/image are two magnets so attracted to each other that they slam together - there is no separating them. There is a LARGE connection.
How else can I express it? Just occassionally you meet someone, and all your body and mind starts buzzing - there's a connection that is ALIVE. It's like that.
And to look at it from another angle: when images/words don't have that connection, they seem "dull" - they are just there, I read them, there is an interest but nothing more. These words/images are like bringing two books together - no attraction between the books, they can be easily separated.
I'm asking this Rannva, because, it is a distinctive experience I have occassionally. So, in the interests of trying to learn how my psi works (and trying to learn how to see it BEFORE the description rather than after ) I'm wandering does anyone else have such a feeling sometimes?
And YES, it is fun!!!
Kathy

As I've pointed out elsewhere, I settled to my own satisfaction some time ago that dream as well as waking psi exists, and no longer have much interest personally in experiments simply designed to look for the presence, or absence of psi.

My interest focuses more on how psi functions, how people can learn to understand psi, to develop psi skills, and to use psi more effectively.

At the PDC contests, participants submit dreams before getting any information about the target. The "highlighting" idea does not seem new - I've done it myself for years at ASD Dream Telepathy contests as well as PDC events, and have encouraged other PDC contest participants to intentionally do so as well. A few have - but not many.

To some extent people do so almost unintentionally - for example, although they may remember a number of dreams, they will only report on one, or they may submit all three but point out that they have the most confidence in the second. Of course many more people will tell you about this after the fact, but lack the confidence to do when actually submitting their dreams.

However, I believe that we learn by doing, and that it seems worthwhile to note which dreams, or which parts of dreams, one feels have tuned into the target through psi before the fact. And if one makes a mistake in identifying psi components - so what? A little public embarrassment perhaps, but remember, we often learn the most from our mistakes! And if you don't want to hazard the chance of publicly ending up with "egg on your face" from misidentifications, nothing prevents you from highlighting beforehand what you consider