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June's Remote Viewing challenge - results (119 read)
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Harry Bosma
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since: Sep 10, 2003
1. June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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The 72 hours for submitting have past. I'm now going to reveal the target provider. The target for the second RV challenge was Ilkin Sungu.

We're trying to put all your submissions online, but unfortunately I accidently deleted one of Ilkin's emails to me, so this part will take a bit longer.

Ilkin, thanks for providing another excellent and emotionally rich target, and for all the background material you prepared. Now, please show us the results!


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Date: Jun 11, 2004 on 02:00 a.m.
RVTarget
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2. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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RV TARGET – June 8, 2004
Time: 12.00 am – 12.30 am Istanbul

Sender: Ilkin Sungu

Target: Historical tower on a rock in the middle of the sea, Bosphorus straith between Black Sea and Mediterranean – Maiden’s /Leander’s Tower "http://alquinte.com/en/rv/tg0406/email2.shtml"]introdution to the target[/url]

Details about the target: The target can be seen from all around the two sides (opening to the Black Sea and Marmara Sea) of the Bosphorus at sea and from both the Asia and Europe on the ground. It is on a tiny rock island 180 m. away from the Asian side Salacak,
Istanbul. The tower is build on approximately 400 square meters of the 1300 square meter island. It’s history goes back to 410 BC. Had many changes trough history; from being a tomb to Damalys, the bellowed wife of Hares, the Commander of the Macedonian King Philip to a lighthouse. .When the Turks conquered Istanbul the tower was derelict. The tower, made of wood, was repaired. However that tower burned down in a fire that started one day when the keepers
were lighting the way for ships. Since as early as the 1600s, the tower has been used as a prison and a quarantine hospital. Built by Ibrahim Pasha in 1719 over the remains of a fortress built by Mehmet the Conqueror. Kiz Kulesi was also used as a prison by the Ottoman
Turks. In the republican period and made into a lighthouse. It was handed over to Naval Forces headquarters on Oct. 20, 1966, and turned into a radar station. The tower is currently in service as a
panoramic restaurant and tea lounge.

The version of the story connected to the tower I have known all my life was; A young man named Hero fell in love with a girl named Leandra, who was a priestess of Aphrodite and living in the tower. He swam from Galata on the Europian shore each night to keep tryst with her. But one stormy night he was drowned and his body washed up on the rocks at the foot of the tower. But when I decide on the Leander's Tower to be the RV target, I learned that this story is one of several based on that of Hero and Leander. The reason I picket the tower as a the target was; the relation of the story with Venus (Aphrodite) as the girl being a priestess of the Goddess, all the other stories/ legends about the tower related with “love” and “passion” representing the Goddesslegends about target and sending time being the time of Venus transit mythological background on Venus
.

The day I made the decision and took photos : I made my last decision about the target ten days before. I decide to take photos to be ready at the point I will make the sending. It was a sunny and brilliant day. Considering people all around the world will participate the experiment, I decide to take a tour all around the tower. I get early and first go to the Europe side, Dolmabahçe Palace. I smoked a cigarette and watched the tower (which is a little more far away from the Europe side). Seeing the sea is too wavy for taking boat I decide to pass the Asia side (which the tower is more close to the shore) using the Bosphorus Bridge connecting the two continents. (I took photos both at the Europe side and on the Bridge too). Five or seven
minutes before 12 am I reached to Uskudar where I can see the tower best and most closely from different sides. The shore is making a curve and it is possible to sea the tower from different angles. here are two levels of sets from the road to the sea, which is used as
seaside cafés. There are carpets and pillows on the sets and young people, lovers were sitting, watching the view, drinking their beers and kissing. I sat on the road up to the sets, taking my legs under me, putting my arms on my knees, my hands open to the sky and try to focus on the image I will try to send ten days later.

I was wearing a blue jean and a jean shirt with buttons in front. There was snickers on my feet. I was using a black sun glasses. An emerald ring on my right second finger, a marriage ring on my second left finger and blue bead bracelet on my left arm. My cousin also took a photo of mine at the point I choose for sending. There was a couple kissing passionately on the set below me and they seemed relaxed after I took photos. There was a man selling stuffed mussels to my left and watching what I was doing with interest. A little more left there was the little wharf for the boats to the tower and a little building serving beer, coffee etc to the people sitting at the coffee on then sets of the shore.

The road was rather crowded, many cars and people passing by. At the other side of the road behind me there was some ruins of ancient city walls. There were many trees behind and beside the road. The tower was just in front of me. Behind it, at the Europe side I can see the Topkapi Palace, Hagia Sophia, Galata Tower, Dolmabahçe Palace and harbors. There were some boats and yachts on the sea. Many sea gulls were flying over. The tower it self is white painted with the top and some frames red. The rocks it is build on can be seen easily.
There was a flag on top and a little place for the boats to bring people to it’s right.
see the photos


8th June, the day I made the sending: Unfortunately, we woke up to a heavy rainy day at the 8th of June. At first I get dressed and hoped it may stop raining, in excitement both for the RV sending and watching the Venus transit. When it don’t stop and I knowing how a
mess traffic should be (and I can’t pass the Asia side in time), I decide to make the sending from my garden, which is also looking at the Bosphorus from the European side to the left of my target. (I add some photos from the garden above). I sat on the grass looking towards the sea, in front of the swimming pool. There was red and pink roses, azelias and pine trees around the view of the sea. The Maiden’s Tower was to my right, out of my sight. I was wearing black stretch, green t-shirt and jean coat.
-I meditate beginning from 11.50 am.
-There was a heavy smell of jasmine, earth and rain.
-I heard bird voices, a dog barking, thunder and a ship horn from a distance.
-I was feeling wet grass and earth under me.
-There was 2-3 butterfly floating on the pool.
-There was a ship passing by on the sea.
-My dog come and lie down silently beside me.
-I felt the slow wind and rain drops over me.
-There were heavy, gray clouds.
-I was feeling silence and peace of mind.

I closed my eyes, begin focusing on the Maiden’s Tower and sending the image. I saw a brilliant red in front of my closed eyes. I tried to send the image first to all over the world and than one by one to all continents. I tried to send the image as seen from all directions. I tried to feel & live the story of Hero and Leander and send. I tried to remember some paintings and poems about their story.

Alternate Views
From Europe; Topkapı Palace, Old City Walls, Sarayburnu, Karakoy, Dolmabahçe Palace, Galata Tower; …
From Asia : Uskudar, Salacak; Kuzguncuk, Harem, Haydarpasa, Selimiye
From The Sea : Every side of the Bosphorus
Over the Sea ; Passing over the Bosphorus Bridge.

Date: Jun 11, 2004 on 05:16 a.m.
RVTarget
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3. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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First of all, I want to thank Harry to make this experiment for all of us and let me be the sender of July. As you must already understood I am a little tchnology disturbed. So you can see the information about the tower and all from http://alquinte.com/en/rv/tg0406/

All dream and awake RV submissions from http://alquinte.com/en/rv/tg0406/submissions.shtml


It was too hard for me to make the choices for 1st 2nd and 3rd place. There were at least a hit in all dreams or RV's. I read and re-read all of them. With Harry's advices, top 3 are;

First place: Sao

Second Place: Gillian

Third Place: Leon - Goshengolly

Honorary - Curt, Kay, Rita, Laura, Kathy and all

And it is increadible that there is nobody without a hit.

KAY

No immediate impressions, then a sense of glaring sunshine, then I tried to hover as if over a map, to see where I got pulled, and the eastern part of the Mediterranean held a tug...Guess I'm not sure of my impressions, it would be easy enough to merely 'guess' at Turkey/ Istanbul.

- Direct hit about the place.

"I'm at some kind of school, learning place, and I've been with a group of other women/girls, sitting in a courtyard. I'm not sure if we've just had a short break, or eating our lunches. It's daytime, if it's sunny it's not overly bright, but pleasant. The courtyard has benches, and I think gravelled pathways, with a lawn, or perhaps a raised bed with shrubs. There are many of these, and then small raised beds between the benches." Courtyard, or some kind of (small and) formal park, with several secluded 'courtyard' areas. A waking thought was even a maze of sorts. 'Learning place' in a wide sense, the women could suggest a convent.

- A possible description of an Aphrodite temple or school of cult.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
LIZLYNNE

I wondered if they were going to serve okra. I said to myself, "if they do I will have to be polite and eat it." Then I remembered that I like okra!

- Aphrodisiacs, named after Aphrodite, the Greek goddess of love and
beauty. Okra is believed to increase semen production.

I've decided to sell my new "tuscan style" house. The house sells
immediately. I am without a home and I go out looking to buy a new house. I wonder why I sold my house because I loved it so much.

- According to a less known legend; When the Venus emerged from the waves of the sea, seven gemstones fell from her tiara, and so the Islands of the Tuscan Archipelago were born

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CURT

I approach the summit of a mountain, somewhere in southeastern Europe, on foot from the west. These are old mountains, their hard lines softened by age.

- Close hit to the location. The sketch has a resemblance to the tower, as a shape with a flag pole at top.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
HARRY

I first had to take my mind of from the idea that you might be in a museum. I got that idea when you mentioned taking a tour…. One of hard rain, frozen. I feeling of something glass like…. One of a children's sledge. And a large shape much like mountain crystal.

- Although it is used mainly as a restaurant, it is a historical place and tourists has tours as museum. It was raining hard during the sending time and the water / pool was glass like. A child sledge may be very much like in the shape of ancient wooden boat like vehicles to reach the islet.

------------------------------------------------------
DIANA

She was wearing a uniform, so instantly it seemed to me to be a military movie. There was no battle of any sort going on. .....She grinned at me and said "This is not what you think it is."

- Mars; Roman god of war and agriculture, identified with the Greek god Ares, father of Romulus and Remus, was a favorite lover of Venus. Rubens painted Venus, leaning into the embrace of her lover, Mars, who is transfixed by her alluring gaze. Caught up in his attraction to the aggressively seductive goddess, Mars is no longer able to carry out his military exploits. Also; Some of Aphrodite's followers were warrior women who would later be called Amazons.

I'm at a site where they are building. What is standing is a frame, skeleton of a building to be. The frame is wood bars rising to the sky and a distinct doorway. The scene is circular in my perspective and all around are large trash bags full of clothes. There are many people working on the structure, which I suppose is a shelter for the homeless, or some other community oriented building...... I just wanted to add that there was a lithograph of a beetle, finely drawn to the little feathery front legs. It was a strong picture that was there for a long time.....That's odd, just wondering if anyone saw a bug or an emblem like a lion and another thing.

- The target tower had been burned and collapsed by earthquakes many times in the history and rebuild again. The tower was used as prison, hospital and storage too. "Leander" name, origins from "lion". Means "lion of a man" from Greek leon "lion" and andros "of a man"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
SAO

the word "canary" -- immediately associated with the image of a pale yellow and deep purple bird. (not, apparently, a canary) -- this was a bizarre and apparently mythological bird, its pale yellow plumage was puffy and downy while its evenly spaced deep purple feathers, dotting it so to speak, were very defined and even sharp... the bird was on a perch and seemed to be in a very large 'cage" or greenhouse type aviary with a zoo or even a circus type atmosphere. I saw other "parrots" but these too seemed to be fantastic and mythological species. -- I also saw a mass of other bizarre creatures, somewhere between apes and clowns--not very distinct. had the impression these were "historical figures" --perhaps photos or drawings as opposed to actual beings.. …… the building itself was low, two stories, and seemed to be situated on the side of a cliff or drop-off, with perhaps other floors "underground" or terraced along the drop-off...

- The Rose and the Myrtle are sacred to Aphrodite and said to be connected with the story of Adonis. The Dove and Sparrow are Aphrodite's birds, as well as the swans, which pulled her chariot. Since ancient times Aphrodite has been depicted as coming out from a Shell. Lynx was also known as her animal. Canary (beauty of voice, use of song in healing, finding your soul's song, happiness, ability to find joy in song during times in darkness/shadow) was not there, lost in the legend. The maiden is prisoner in the tower, can be defined as cage. And , The tower is really a low, two stories one and although it is on an islet, the islet is very close to a slope of a hill at the shore. It is also said that there are underground floors and even underground tunnels to the shores.

I was inside a large industrial-sized shower room with a friend, showering. the building was deserted and there was a bizarre and incongruous sort of romantic feeling. just as I became conscious of this, a huge cockroach appeared and then just as quickly disappeared. We began to search for this insect because of its obvious striking size. suddenly the roach appeared right before my face in mid air, fanning its wings and hovering like a hummingbird. when i tried to catch it, it vanished.

- He was in water, waves like showering around the islet and rocks. Cockroach (which means; speed to avoid harm, understanding shadow, moving through fear and understanding disgust in others) was singing like a Hummingbird (which means; ability to heal by using light as a laser from mouth, endurance over long journeys, ability to fly into small places to heal , joy , happiness, love) was so big and vanished. It is like a description of Leander's situation of swimming to death.

I realized I was trying to get somewhere else and i left the building and saw that it was a "floating building" -- connected to the "shore" by an intricate network of docks or floating sidewalks that shifted and rocked as i walked along them. i noticed large exotic goldfish in the water under the docks. one fish in particular seemed to be watching me. It occurred to me that the building was a 'fish farm"

- Floating building, describing the tower and "Goldfish" (prosperity, beauty, harmony, balance between mind and emotion, peace) was what Hero and Leander look for. Scyhiller also describes the waves Hero throw herself in his ballad "Hero and Leander".
----------------------------------------------
LESLIE

I'm from the state of Oregon. deeply I saw something like a state sign in the shape of a rectangle and then an octagone one and the words Ohio Cornfields came to me?

- Venus (Aphrodite) was also Goddess of agriculture (cereal grains, corn, bread).
-------------------------
LAURA

that was a man's voice telling me: "There are no more secrets between us." …the image that I received was a distinct image of a large "X" shape. I had a sense of open landscape area, not a lot of buildings. A fuzzy and blurred field with lots of flowers in bloom and possibly a windmill in the background.

- Similar words Leander told to Hero when they first met during a festival for Aphrodite. Similar to the festival area Leander and Hero met in the legend and some similarities with today's environment close to the tower.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

KATHY

- that the target was somehow related to earth and metal
- and that the shapes were raised rectangle, slightly fluted at the edges,
and flat rectangles;
- and that there are two and a bit "things" in the target.
- that the target was very precise in construction
- that the target emphasized directionality (both horizontal and
vertical and different compass points)
- was related to the precise ordering of the world (the neat garden
beds; the filing system link)

- Direct description of the target.

I'm in a flat field enclosed by a simple wire strand fence, the strands
between rough old weather worn wooden posts - the field feels like it is full of the most neatly tilled gardens I've ever seen…I'm facing North West ….The field is the same as an orchard I know - but it was no longer an orchard.

- The festival area in the legend and it is to the North West for Kathy.

…..hanging flat metal rectangles. They are about the same size as the garden beds, although a little more narrow…he metal sheets seemed to be placed as if they were above the garden beds -but when I looked at the beds they were not there and when I looked at them, the beds were not there.

- Now there are harbors and industrial facilities.
-----------------------------------------------------
BERTHE

"I see a lot of oranges on a tree, bright orange, with green leaves. Then I see a spacious agricultural environment. It is a bright, sunny day and there is no one near. I see endless cornfields, stretching as far as the horizon, the corn gently swaying in the breeze. It is quiet and warm, the sky is blue, with only a few tiny clouds. I'm looking to the east (I think), away from the sun."
-Many similarities with my garden and the festival area in the legend.

--------------------------------------------------------
JEAN

yesterday, in the middle of the nap dream I sent to May on the Bridge (the one where I aid she was showing me around China) I got this very distinct picture of the Hagia Sophia with its gold domes shining :))

- The Byzantine Emperor buried his daughter, under the Emperors' door of Hagia Sophia after she died in the tower.
-----------------------------------------------
TERRY

… the image of a baby with male genitalia which seemed large for such an infant. I immediately had the vision of the statue which I am believe is in Italy of a nude male in a public square I have seen this statue before but do not remember the name. ….When I tried to work this RV I was stuck on the image of the male genital in my face and could not go anywhere except the
statue.

-When Zeus killed his father Uranus, he cut of his father's genitals and cast them into the sea. The sea foamed and boiled and Aphrodite arouse from the waters.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

GILLIAN

1) A tall singular structure with the impression of a pointed or spiked
top.Centered in an open area. Impression of concrete and metal, solid and Heavy and strong. Sharp angles.

2) Some complexity of structure at the base. Almost like chain, webbing, or something woven creating a wider base.

3) Several smaller vertical lines nearby, such as poles or lampposts.

4) Suggestion of circle in concrete or floor.

5) Pale green color.

6) Cool, gritty feeling if touched.

7) Setting has town-square feeling, as if this is a deliberate public displayof the structure.

Thought- this is something that has taken a long time for it to be taken seriously.
- Total description of the target (and around), the Tower.
---------------------------------------------------

LEON

……water running down one side of a dusty dirt road…It was daytime and I was at the bottom of the street and looking up….water, this time running in some kind of concrete gutter, and again the water feature was all I remembered of the dream. This was a much darker dream, as I was somewhere deep in a building, like a basement.
- Total description to the target (and around), the Tower.
-------------------------
RITA

…..I began to get images as if from overhead of a building or place with triangular shaped rooflines, very brightly lit. THEN: An Ernie….started saying his usual, "I feel great!"…... (Read the story of Rita: Every now and then Ernie/Bill talks, without anyone touching him, at any time of the day or night. No new batteries in these almost three years)….In my dream the place is more less a public one, maybe with a stage, but with steps to a raised area. Some people are singing and some are costumed or dressed in fancy clothes, coming forward at the end to show themselves individually. They are of various ages, though at first they were younger people and I thought the older people might be their teachers. Maybe it was a church event, for one of the young men seemed to have a role as if he were Jesus.
- First she seems looking from the roof of the tower. Later the dream describes the restaurant atmosphere of the building. What do you think about the talking of Ernie? A message from Leander????
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
GOSHENGOLLY

………pushing a bed into a room through a block of ice……A woman
and man here asked me to pay for the "pizza" since I had caused them some concern……I then leave here with something secret from the room that they don't know I have taken…... Then I see I have primitive type braids in my hair as part of the head dress. Then I see a woman practicing a high dive into a pool a few levels below where we stand.

- Like scenes from the legend and Hero throwing herself to the waves after Leander's death.
-----------------------
RANNVA
- A horse or animal. I am in its presence, and it is important to the situation.
- I am observing beige/golden sandals/leather flip-flops from a perspective that is behind the sandals and quite low, so that I can see the heels of the person wearing them, and I can also see the label imprinted inside the sandal as the person walks. I think I might be that person.

- Driving on a freeway.

One of the legends about the tower is on Battal Gazi and his siege to Damascus before turning back for the maiden. Horses should take an important part in this event. Sandals were what they used to wear at the times of all the legends about the Tower. There is a freeway just close to the Tower.

Date: Jun 11, 2004 on 05:35 a.m.
Harry Bosma
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4. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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last updated at Jun 11, 2004 06:18 a.m. (2 times)
Hi all,

Concerning the submitted viewings, do I have all the images, or are there a few missing?


ASD member page.
Date: Jun 11, 2004 on 06:00 a.m.
Ed K
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5. Re:Why did this RV challenge work so well?
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Hi all -

Congratulations to all for the amazing medley of successes - so much more so than usual that the first, second, third place designations seem inadequate to me. For results of this overall quality, categories, rather than places, might prove more accurate:

Fantastic Hits

Excellent Hits

Great Hits.

Good Hits.

I can see why Ilkin had a problem with judging.

But what strikes me as most interesting question - why did this remote viewing contest work so well, for so many participants in so many different physical locations?

Possiblilities:

1. An extraordinary target.

2. An extraordinary sender.

3. An extraordinary time for sending and receiving?
... Venus transiting the Sun?

... Geomagnetic activity level?
... (research shows psi may work best during periods of
... low geomagentic activity)

... Phase of the moon?
... (The waning moon phase just after the full moon)

... Sunspot activity?

4.?, 5.?, 6? . . .

Please add your suggestions or speculations to this list.

In seems to me that a post hoc analysis of the conditions of successful remote viewing experiements like these could lead to a useful set of commonalities, that might allow one to find the best conditions for successful experiments of this kind in the future.

Great job Harry and Ilkin!

Ed

Date: Jun 11, 2004 on 07:45 a.m.
Curt
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6. Re:Why did this RV challenge work so well?
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Ed K (Jun 11, 2004 07:45 a.m.):
Hi all -

But what strikes me as most interesting question - why did this remote viewing contest work so well, for so many participants in so many different physical locations?

Possiblilities:

1. An extraordinary target.

2. An extraordinary sender.

3. An extraordinary time for sending and receiving?
... Venus transiting the Sun?

... Geomagnetic activity level?
... (research shows psi may work best during periods of
... low geomagentic activity)

... Phase of the moon?
... (The waning moon phase just after the full moon)

... Sunspot activity?

4.?, 5.?, 6? . . .

Please add your suggestions or speculations to this list.

Ed


Well, how about that by practice we are all beginning to get better at it?

Curt

Date: Jun 11, 2004 on 10:00 a.m.
LizLynne
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7. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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Congratulations to the winners!

Thanks Ilkin for being the target and for all of your hard work Thanks to Harry also for organizing this.

LizLynne

Date: Jun 11, 2004 on 10:08 a.m.
MR Coffee
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8. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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Hi all.

This is definitely the best results I've seen in one of these viewings so far. I understand Venus is to have another go at it in seven years time, I hope we can too.

Congratulations Ilkin!

Leon

Date: Jun 11, 2004 on 10:41 a.m.
Laura Atkinson
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9. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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Wow...great job Ilkin and Harry. I love reading everyone's submissions and sketches.

Perhaps it was the combination of
1) practice makes perfect
2) geomagnetic planetary events - isn't there recorded and validated information about the effects of psi and magnetic pull on this already?
3) Ilkin herself and her abilities
4) the individuals abilities
5) PRACTICE

Great job everyone!!!
Laura

--------------------------
just close your eyes
but find no darkness there
your mind will find
gentle rhythm and rhyme
and images beyond compare
--------------------------

Date: Jun 11, 2004 on 12:31 p.m.
rannva
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10. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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Very fascinating. I still don't know what to think of it all, but it certainly was interesting and fun to take part in this experiment (even if I, as I mentioned in my email, forgot about it all -- and remembered it first during the day afterward!). Next time I will make sure I am more 'tuned in' about the event.

I often use remote visualization to send good thoughts to my family who live in Europe - and my mother and I seem to have a 'good connection' because we often discover we are contacting each other at the same instant (often we email each other at the exact same time etc.). I don't know or by any means insist that this woud be reliable evidence of any kind of capability on my behalf, but I just find it intriguing. In fact, I belive my husband and I met in part as a result of visualization...

Wishing you all luminous dreams! Have a great weekend.

Date: Jun 11, 2004 on 02:15 p.m.
kathy turner
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11. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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Congratulations to everyone with the FANTASTIC hits!!!
Congratulations to the FANTASTIC sender and researcher and loving commentator, Ilkin.
Congratulations to the FANTASTIC organizer and loving host, Harry.
Kathy
Date: Jun 11, 2004 on 02:26 p.m.
kathy turner
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12. Re:Why did this RV challenge work so well?
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Curt (Jun 11, 2004 10:00 a.m.):
[quote]Ed K (Jun 11, 2004 07:45 a.m.):
Hi all -

But what strikes me as most interesting question - why did this remote viewing contest work so well, for so many participants in so many different physical locations?

Possiblilities:

1. An extraordinary target.

2. An extraordinary sender.

3. An extraordinary time for sending and receiving?
... Venus transiting the Sun?

... Geomagnetic activity level?
... (research shows psi may work best during periods of
... low geomagentic activity)

... Phase of the moon?
... (The waning moon phase just after the full moon)

... Sunspot activity?

4.?, 5.?, 6? . . .

Please add your suggestions or speculations to this list.

Ed


I'd add:
- the INTERPRETATION of the RVs
- that The TARGET must lie very close to the North Anatolian Fault

Ilkin has done a brillant job of reading the RV in terms, not just of the physical reality but also the historical and mythological connections. This depth of reading, I feel, accords with how our dreaming mind loves to work: it LOVES the richness of the past and of mythology. We may entirely miss information if we think that our RV resembles our close viewing and as well we do a disservice to our close viewing if we think of it as being primarily about what-is-there before our eyes!

As for the North Anatolian Fault: I'm interested in a dream I had two days ago - it was linked to Japan (also the site of many earthquakes) - and I'm pretty sure a geologist would laugh at my dream explanation - but when I saw the TARGET - I thought of my dream - so I wander.
Dream: "the Japanese (read Turkish?) don't bother much about all the little earthquakes they get. They just know it is increased electricity along the fault lines." Now given the dream occurred in the days of RV, given the placement of the TARGET - I wander, if in some way, the dream is suggesting some connection between fault lines and psi ability??? A long shot? Any research???
Kathy

Date: Jun 11, 2004 on 02:58 p.m.
Diana T
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13. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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My drawing's not not there, but it wasn't a very good drawing....so it's probably for the best. Fantastic job, Ilkin and Harry and all those who participated. Have a great week!

It will be fun to continue practicing.

Date: Jun 11, 2004 on 05:50 p.m.
Curt
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14. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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Laura Atkinson (Jun 11, 2004 12:31 p.m.):
Wow...great job Ilkin and Harry. I love reading everyone's submissions and sketches.

Ditto to that!


--------------------------
just close your eyes
but find no darkness there
your mind will find
gentle rhythm and rhyme
and images beyond compare
--------------------------

Laura - Is that your poetry, or is it a quote? It corresponds remarkably well to a dream I had the other night inside of another dream -- which I shared this morning with the Dream Activism Group:


I am feeling bad about not incubating an Awakened Heart dream for the Dream Activism Group, and I am going over this in my mind, when a voice from above tells me not to focus on the mind, but on the body. When I shift my consciousness here it is like falling into a stream of harmonious music. My negative thoughts vanish, and I know that the music is all part of the work of the Awakened Heart.

Best to all!
Curt

Date: Jun 11, 2004 on 06:13 p.m.
Curt
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15. Re:Why did this RV challenge work so well?
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kathy turner (Jun 11, 2004 02:58 p.m.):
As for the North Anatolian Fault: I'm interested in a dream I had two days ago - it was linked to Japan (also the site of many earthquakes) - and I'm pretty sure a geologist would laugh at my dream explanation - but when I saw the TARGET - I thought of my dream - so I wander.
Dream: "the Japanese (read Turkish?) don't bother much about all the little earthquakes they get. They just know it is increased electricity along the fault lines." Now given the dream occurred in the days of RV, given the placement of the TARGET - I wander, if in some way, the dream is suggesting some connection between fault lines and psi ability??? A long shot? Any research???
Kathy

Kathy -
While I am not a geologist (archaeology comes close, but as Siggy would say, no cigar!), your idea is not at all off base, since all of the tectonic plates are now known to be linked one way or another, and motion in one can cause motion in others down the line. I would mention that another of our Boarders (whom I will leave to identify themselves if they wish) told me of a dream recently which related to a fault line on the East Coast of the U.S. Whole lotta shakin' goin' on!

Curt

Date: Jun 11, 2004 on 06:16 p.m.
Goshengolly
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16. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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Dear Elif:

I wish to thank you for the incredible detail that you presented in describing your RV Target; your focus in relaying the target; and in the work that you did in the analysis of interpreting everyone's attempt at identifying the target. It is beyond excellence! Your attention to detail was superior, beyond anything I have seen here in the past three years! Thank you so much because you teach us about the complexity of understanding our dreams, and their complex relevance to potential targets!

XO,

Goshengolly

Date: Jun 11, 2004 on 06:35 p.m.
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17. Re:Why did this RV challenge work so well?
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last updated at Jun 11, 2004 06:53 p.m. (1 times)

Curt (Jun 11, 2004 06:16 p.m.):

kathy turner (Jun 11, 2004 02:58 p.m.):
As for the North Anatolian Fault: I'm interested in a dream I had two days ago - it was linked to Japan (also the site of many earthquakes) - and I'm pretty sure a geologist would laugh at my dream explanation - but when I saw the TARGET - I thought of my dream - so I wander.
Dream: "the Japanese (read Turkish?) don't bother much about all the little earthquakes they get. They just know it is increased electricity along the fault lines." Now given the dream occurred in the days of RV, given the placement of the TARGET - I wander, if in some way, the dream is suggesting some connection between fault lines and psi ability??? A long shot? Any research???
Kathy

Kathy -
While I am not a geologist (archaeology comes close, but as Siggy would say, no cigar!), your idea is not at all off base, since all of the tectonic plates are now known to be linked one way or another, and motion in one can cause motion in others down the line. I would mention that another of our Boarders (whom I will leave to identify themselves if they wish) told me of a dream recently which related to a fault line on the East Coast of the U.S. Whole lotta shakin' goin' on!

Curt



Dear Curt:

I don't know who the benefactor is of your post, but I can suggest a site for folks to visit, if they are interested in Earth Quakes, and seismological changes. I tend to visit here regularly because it is an important site, testing "predictions" and open to a healthy debate. Go to: http://www.syzygyjob.net. They have EQ prediction methods that are tested and challenged, which are open to new theories, and they also have a dream board for psi dreamers. On top of this, they are open to sensitives who may feel "precursors" to EQ's, in order to understand what might be predictive signals. I love this site because they are venturing into the realm of the measurment, and validation, of psi impressions, in addition to testing new scientific theories of the predictors of Earthquakes. This is an excellent site for one to visit, to contemplate models of "prediction."

Sincerely,

Goshengolly

Date: Jun 11, 2004 on 06:47 p.m.
Rita
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18. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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Dear Harry, Ilkin and All,

What a great target and connections wintin the group! As a number 4 of why this month was better, how about that the group is gainly the kind of flow, ability to tune it, whatever you want to name it, and I hate naming things, for that limits the possibilities, but it seems to me that psi dreams, such as precognition and telepathy (which is much like RV in that there is a focused target) are much better accessed by those with some emotional connection, even if it is only a team spirit, camaraderie that is at play. Certainly, that last word is also a good hint in that going at this kind of experimentation, knowing that we are only really trying at some very limited way or low level to access what is a very exceptional power of the mind available to all of us can be very daunting if we don't admit that we can all make mistakes in the begining of our learning curves. These "mistakes", "missteps", "miseadings" are not at all hard to take with someone like Ilkin awarding all of of credit for hits. And thus reinforcing our ways of looking at what we got right or how best we "see" or peceive the target.

I felt as if I was really way off, but when I read of the target and the bright light, etc. I knew that until Ernie kept interrupting my focus that I had been headed in the right direction. Also in my dream attempt, I didn't record it as fully as I should have, being rushed and thinking this was in no way connected. Yet when I read all of the report and connections, I realized that after I had sent my little report, I hadn't mentioend that the some of the "costumed" people were couples who came forward to say who they were, etc. I didn't think that mattered since I had mentioned people of different ages, etc., but it seems as if "couples" and romantic relationships were an important part of the scenario Ilkin sent.

I should know better than to send brief detail, and usually do write lots more, as many of you know who have to read through my long dream reports. But excercises like these do bond us, and inform us, and teach us how to do them better next time so that when it REALLY matters, we can be more fine-tuned in receiving and reporting and revealing that which is important for us to find.

And there are always those times when we don't connect at all, no matter how hard we try, because the secret is that it can be easy once we know how to tune in personally to our own "stations".

Thanks, dreaming friends, for your sharing and the fun of being a part of this group.

Loving greetings from Venus and me, Rita

Date: Jun 11, 2004 on 07:18 p.m.
Laura Atkinson
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19. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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Curt -
That's a poem I wrote. But you can quote me if you'd like.

Laura



Curt (Jun 11, 2004 06:13 p.m.):

Laura Atkinson (Jun 11, 2004 12:31 p.m.):
Wow...great job Ilkin and Harry. I love reading everyone's submissions and sketches.

Ditto to that!


--------------------------
just close your eyes
but find no darkness there
your mind will find
gentle rhythm and rhyme
and images beyond compare
--------------------------

Laura - Is that your poetry, or is it a quote? It corresponds remarkably well to a dream I had the other night inside of another dream -- which I shared this morning with the Dream Activism Group:


I am feeling bad about not incubating an Awakened Heart dream for the Dream Activism Group, and I am going over this in my mind, when a voice from above tells me not to focus on the mind, but on the body. When I shift my consciousness here it is like falling into a stream of harmonious music. My negative thoughts vanish, and I know that the music is all part of the work of the Awakened Heart.

Best to all!
Curt


Date: Jun 11, 2004 on 07:27 p.m.
kathy turner
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20. Re:Why did this RV challenge work so well?
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Curt (Jun 11, 2004 06:16 p.m.):
While I am not a geologist (archaeology comes close, but as Siggy would say, no cigar!), your idea is not at all off base, since all of the tectonic plates are now known to be linked one way or another, and motion in one can cause motion in others down the line. I would mention that another of our Boarders (whom I will leave to identify themselves if they wish) told me of a dream recently which related to a fault line on the East Coast of the U.S. Whole lotta shakin' goin' on!

Curt


YES - but Curt and Gosh - what I was wandering is if places where the tectonic plates rub up against each other - as I gather they do along the Anatolian Fault - create more "electricity" - i.e. more natural psi ability - and if in having a person from such a massive grinding of plates area and a target just at the meeting point of the plates (is it??) somehow magnified the "electricity" i.e. psi abilities.
OR put differently does the movemnet of the earth's crust create PSI abilities or magnify them?? Afterall we are contemplating the fact that a movement of a planet may do that - why not the movement of the earth's plates???
Anyway - just thoughts that arise from the coincidence of my dream and the RV.
Mutter mutter,
I'll check out that site Gosh - sounds interesting to link science and psi.
Kathy

Date: Jun 11, 2004 on 08:46 p.m.
kathy turner
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21. Re:Why did this RV challenge work so well?
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Goshengolly (Jun 11, 2004 06:53 p.m.):
I can suggest a site for folks to visit, if they are interested in Earth Quakes, and seismological changes. I tend to visit here regularly because it is an important site, testing "predictions" and open to a healthy debate. Go to: http://www.syzygyjob.net.
Goshengolly

Gosh - I found this map of the Anatolian Fault Line inTurkey - Turkey being squashed by the two major plates: the Euroasian and the Arabian - the fault as I understand it runs right past the RV image - my interest in the fault and its possible effects on PSI where in response to Ed's question: what made the results so good!!!
http://gldss7.cr.usgs.gov/neis/world/turkey/turkey_faults.html
Kathy

Date: Jun 11, 2004 on 09:04 p.m.
Kay
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22. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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Well then, in response to Ed’s questions to try to identify things that are conducive to successful remote viewing I think I’ll offer my own tuppence worth.

One thing that I am highly appreciative of – aside from all the hard work and effort put in by targets to research and present their targets and compile the responses, thank you for that! – is the very positive and allowing atmosphere in which this challenge is being conducted. Both Laura and Ilkin (and Harry, no doubt, hovering somewhere in the background) have been actively looking for hits, rather than focussing on what was not so close. To me this is very encouraging and supportive, but without there being any ‘slackness’ or suggestion that ‘anything goes’. By indicating possible or indirect hits I think two things are achieved, positive feedback to the viewer/dreamer (he or she WAS in fact picking up on something) and a highlighting of the necessity to take an open mind to interpretation and that the psychic and dreaming languages are very similar and often require a degree of interpretation. This is something I am learning about in my own life, where I have always accepted and believed in the importance of my dreams but have been ‘split off’ off from my waking impressions – which are often more accurate – because of the generally non-accepting society around me, which refuses to take ‘hunches’ or ‘feelings’ as a valid base for interpretation or decision making, explaining it away as ‘unreal’ and without ‘proof’ or ‘hard evidence’.

So one condition that would support successful remote viewing I believe is an open and generous attitude/atmosphere.

As I said, I’m only beginning to understand how (my own) psychic nature works, but one of my observations is that it works better where there is an emotional charge and, I think, primarily on the part of the sender. And by no means do I mean anything negative by ‘emotional charge’, but I think that having feelings, about the target fuels the sending. Both of the targets viewed have had a mythological link and I think that too has been supportive.

A second condition then could be that the sender has feelings, one way or the other, about the target or its history, and I am sure a general sense of enthusiasm will not go amiss, either.

I am also wondering if using a ‘link’ is helpful (and maybe people are already doing this)? For the first viewing I was online when I realised that it was the time, so I went to the ASD board simply because I have no personal connection whatsoever with anyone in the group and I thought it would help me find a point of focus. The second time I was not online, but visualised first the boards and then thought of Venus passing in front of the sun. On both occasions I had a degree of success, but at neither was I able to give it my full attention (I was at work on the Tuesday.) I realise that this has more to do with the viewer, than the sender, and maybe there are certain conditions that support correct perception on the part of the viewer that can be identified.

Well, I might think of more, but those were immediate thoughts.

Date: Jun 11, 2004 on 11:09 p.m.
RVTarget
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23. Kathy's important role
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There are many things I want to add but not enough time now.

One very important thing is; at first (during we were discussing with Harry at the time of previous RV, Laura's sending) my first preferance on the target was sending the "Rumeli Castle". It also has many interesting legends drelated. But when Laura's May RV results announced Kathy not only saw but even send a photo and sketch of my possible target for next month. And I changed my target to Maiden's Tower. So, we can also say that Kathy is the "precognative" dream winner of the next month during May and changed the target of June.

Congraculations everybody - ilkin

Date: Jun 12, 2004 on 12:57 a.m.
RVTarget
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24. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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I can't say I understand all what you mean but I can make some explinations from my point of view Ed and all.

First of all; this was my first experience as a sender (even as a reciever I had 2-3 experiences). I was not so sure if I can do it properly. And from the previous experiences, my perception on these experiments are as; people were percieving many things related with the target, may be more than the target itself. For example there is a very similar tower in my neighbourhood but without any history or story. If I had choosen that one, I am sure many people would make hits again, but not this much. I thought to chose a subject (a staue etc) from home, put it infront of me and try to send but than I thought what would I be sending to people; "a woman in Turkey sitting in front of an object", nothing else which may take place in our dreaming mind, no smell, no feeling, no emotion, no movement. I thought everybody may have a different way of perception and I can/ might give them as much as I can, according to their way of recieving.

For exampe; I didn't know about the story of Orpheus and his visit to underground for Eucyrdes, during the May experiment of Laura. It didn't appered to me to make any connection with the flames around the woman in my RV with the "divine" in my RV as a journey to underworld. I only looked at the open objects making my comments, the painting (which belongs to Laura), the water, the flames etc. I didn't think to make a connection between all them and others but just said "this must be Laura, it must be US". I get the first place with Diana but why because I thought only what is very obvious. I didn't think what is hidden, which should be the real part. (later I thought if I really deserved it).

For example I hesitated too much about Kay's submission, she found it is Turkey. I though for a long time if she must take the first place, being the only one mentioning Turkey. I asked Harry and thought again. But there was Sao's submission not only telling about selected target but also all the story, even some emotions represented by the target.

I may not expressing what I mean again. Like this ; the target may be a vase, nobody can have a vase in their dream or awake RV but many can have bits of pieces about who it belong in the past, who made it, if it was a gift at some condition, if there are any motives on it, which kind of environments it had been kept in the past etc etc... Than how will we decide both on selecting the target and deciding the results.

As I said, I am very new and have very little self esteem on this. So, it is a happiness for me at the points I could be successfull and reason to learn more at the points I failed. If there is any success thank you all for achieving it alltogether, if there is any failure forgive my ignorance and give it to my desire to try before ready. Promise I will be better in learning and practicing. - ilkin

Date: Jun 12, 2004 on 03:08 a.m.
Harry Bosma
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25. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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I've always trusted that these challenges would go rather well, and also know for sure that we are getting better at this every time.

However, both Laura and Ilkin have gone far beyond what I ever imagined. The targets were much better than I had expected to be possible. The feedback given by Laura and Ilkin has been broad and detailed. This is makes a huge difference for building confidence.

Ilkin went even further. I couldn't at first believe it when she sent me complete background articles. Knowing how busy Ilkin is, I didn't think it possible she had time for all this. Then again, Ilkin often seems to do the impossible.

The advantage of all the background information is of course that it allowed for much more feedback.

Ed, I'd like to add a new option: excellent trainers.

Date: Jun 12, 2004 on 03:26 a.m.
Harry Bosma
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26. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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last updated at Jun 12, 2004 03:58 a.m. (1 times)
Just saw Ilkin's latest post.

Kay, here's the part of what I wrote about your entry. Mind you, I hadn't seen your full entry yet, and didn't know you had the same doubts.


I found Kay remarkable too, for guessing Istanbul. But the critic in my immediately thinks that Istanbul stands out as an item on the timezone list I made. So, how remarkable is this, I don't know? Nobody else managed to do this though.

Added later: It's quite impressive to have so many good results, that entries like Kay's float around between winner and honourable mention.

This particular judging problem can be easily solved I think. Next time I'll ask everyone to make a guess about the general location.

Date: Jun 12, 2004 on 03:42 a.m.
Curt
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27. Re:Why did this RV challenge work so well?
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[b]kathy turner (Jun 11, 2004 08:46 p.m
YES - but Curt and Gosh - what I was wandering is if places where the tectonic plates rub up against each other - as I gather they do along the Anatolian Fault - create more "electricity" - i.e. more natural psi ability - and if in having a person from such a massive grinding of plates area and a target just at the meeting point of the plates (is it??) somehow magnified the "electricity" i.e. psi abilities.
OR put differently does the movemnet of the earth's crust create PSI abilities or magnify them?? Afterall we are contemplating the fact that a movement of a planet may do that - why not the movement of the earth's plates???
Kathy

Without a doubt! In this area, before Europeans came, Native shamans took themselves to the plate boundary to experience these psi phenomena, along with strange lights and sounds that occur there. They also made piles of stones to mark these places -- I have been studying these lately.

Vater vater,

Curt

Date: Jun 12, 2004 on 03:57 a.m.
Harry Bosma
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28. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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Diana, I added your picture:

http://alquinte.com/en/rv/tg0406/submissions.shtml

Date: Jun 12, 2004 on 04:18 a.m.
Kay
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29. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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last updated at Jun 12, 2004 04:22 a.m. (1 times)
Me? Win? You guys must be kidding?!

I actually think it was highly appropriate that I didn't, besides, I never joined to 'win'. I hadn't speculated beforehand as to where the target might be, but when I felt a pull towards the east of the Mediterranean I deduced Turkey, based on the knowledge that there was at least one person there (I'd picked that much up from general conversations on the board.)

So maybe successful viewing is a combination of seeing, a hunch, and interpretation which takes into account known facts?

I consider myself very much on a learning curve here. It was an afterthought to submit the description of the locale from the dream the same morning, prior to the sending/viewing. If I had had more confidence I might have included that the theme of the dream was one of loss (misplaced handbag, with wallet and keys and what all that represents) but that is (sadly) a familiar theme with me and so I assumed it was entirely personal and didn't submit it. But even if I had, well I suppose that would have fed into the myth associated with the tower, but added little to any description or definition of the physical target. Or I might have added that in my comments to the dream I had suggested that I had been to school on the inner planes. But I did neither.

Still, it's always interesting to discuss these things!

Or, another angle, if we'd been hunting for someone or something, then getting a hit on Turkey would have been useful - on the other hand, it's a big country and without description of the location it would still be like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Date: Jun 12, 2004 on 04:20 a.m.
Curt
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30. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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Kay -


Kay (Jun 12, 2004 04:22 a.m.):

So maybe successful viewing is a combination of seeing, a hunch, and interpretation which takes into account known facts?


That does add to Ed's list in a constructive way -- and it also is quite analogous to what real-time shamans and healers do. For them there is no separation among these things, which is why late 19th through mid-20th century anthropologists concluded that they were all charlatans -- until we began to experiment with the states of consciousness they describe ourselves. That's one thing we have Carlos Castaneda to thank for, even though he was every bit as ethically questionable as the descriptions of shamans by the early anthropologists! (Maybe that's where he got the idea? Most of what he writes about can be found in the literature of that period.)


I consider myself very much on a learning curve here.

So are we all! And I have the sense that what we are learning is not merely a useful parlor trick, but a kind of group attunement which will be of great use in the times to come. I link this work with the work of the Dream Activism Group, and I know that there is a lot of overlap between the regular memberships of both groups!

Curt

Date: Jun 12, 2004 on 05:50 a.m.
Ed K
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31. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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Hi all -

Thanks for all of your suggestions and additions to the list.

However let me clarify, I do not look for an explanation, so much as practical ways to optimize future experiments.

For example what makes for an optimal psi-target? Which targets seem the easiest to see, and what characteristics make them so?

In the waking world, practical psychologists have put in a fair amount of effort into perception as applied to traffic signs. With a traffic sign you want to create a sign that drivers can not only see from a good distance away - but that seems easily distinguished from other traffic signs. Distinctive shapes, striking colors, bold lettering and images play their part.

Similarly, some psychic targets seem much easier to see than other targets. For some reason most parapsychologists have devoted only nominal, if any, effort or thought to the problem of optimizing psi targets - many don't seem to have even considered this a problem at all. In this I feel they have severely handicapped themselves, and unnecessarily compromised the significance of the results of their research. For example, Zener cards - standard ESP cards - in the opinion of myself and others make quite difficult psi targets, but researchers still use them.

If one wanted to simply prove that human beings could shoot physical arrows into a physical target at 100 yards, among other things one would of necessity need to take into account both the size and the visibility of the target in order to produce statistically significant results The same of course goes for parapsychologists who want to do valid research on the question of whether human beings can shoot psychic arrows into a psychic targets.

And if you want to train people to learn to shoot arrows, it makes sense to make sure that you provide them with a target that they can easily see!

What characterizes an easy to see and easy to identify psi-target? Over the years I've developed my own theories based on my own experience, and Dale Graff has done quite a bit of work along these lines, but I think that we still have a long way to go.

Similarly, what characteristics make for an optimal sender?

We also need to do more research into what constitutes the optimal time and place conditions for a psi. Dean Radin and others have compiled evidence that the best psi results usually (but not always) take place during periods of low geomagnetic activity, with other data supporting the idea that the time around the full moon might also facilitate psi. But I think that this just seems only seems two component among many others.

If we want to progress further - to the point of developing training programs where people can learn to have reliably accurate (rather than occasionally accurate) psi, I believe that we need to bring hidden and uncontrolled variables into the light so that we can learn how to deal with them and work with them.

Yours towards greater psi-lucidity,

Ed
.

Date: Jun 12, 2004 on 06:49 a.m.
RVTarget
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32. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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Dear Bjo; sorry I recieved your dream this afternoon (12th) long after the announcement. Considering the handcraft item., spices, colors etc, I would probably think that (although you thout it was somewhere in South America) it might be related with the festival Hero and Leander met. - ilkin

I hope I'm not too late with my input. This was a dream at 2:07AM Pacific Time. June 8, 2004.

I am standing at an exotic Mercado somewhere. Colorful booths, small packages of clear plastic wrap with spices of different colors, purple, yellows, all the colors. Lovely handcrafted items for sale. Crowded, strolling through lines of tables and booths. We are on vacation maybe near a beach. Warm climates. Feels Mexican or South American.

Bjo Ashwill

Date: Jun 12, 2004 on 12:01 p.m.
Curt
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33. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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RVTarget (Jun 12, 2004 12:01 p.m.):
Dear Bjo; sorry I recieved your dream this afternoon (12th) long after the announcement. Considering the handcraft item., spices, colors etc, I would probably think that (although you thout it was somewhere in South America) it might be related with the festival Hero and Leander met. - ilkin

I hope I'm not too late with my input. This was a dream at 2:07AM Pacific Time. June 8, 2004.

I am standing at an exotic Mercado somewhere. Colorful booths, small packages of clear plastic wrap with spices of different colors, purple, yellows, all the colors. Lovely handcrafted items for sale. Crowded, strolling through lines of tables and booths. We are on vacation maybe near a beach. Warm climates. Feels Mexican or South American.

Bjo Ashwill


Linking back to last month's RV object, I couldn't help thinking of the film Black Orpheus when I read your dream and Ilkin's response!

Curt

Date: Jun 12, 2004 on 12:47 p.m.
kathy turner
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34. Re:Why did this RV challenge work so well?
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Curt (Jun 12, 2004 03:57 a.m.):
Without a doubt! In this area, before Europeans came, Native shamans took themselves to the plate boundary to experience these psi phenomena, along with strange lights and sounds that occur there. They also made piles of stones to mark these places -- I have been studying these lately.
Vater vater,
Curt

CURT - do you mean here along the North Anatolian Fault? What are the strange lights and sounds? Do they still appear? Do they appear at all fault lines or just at the very intense ones.
And what about other areas - did Shamans use the meeting of plates?
Have you published anything on this - if so where can I read it?
And oh what is "vater"
Kathy

Date: Jun 12, 2004 on 01:57 p.m.
kathy turner
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35. Re:Kathy's important role
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RVTarget (Jun 12, 2004 12:57 a.m.):
One very important thing is; at first (during we were discussing with Harry at the time of previous RV, Laura's sending) my first preferance on the target was sending the "Rumeli Castle". It also has many interesting legends drelated. But when Laura's May RV results announced Kathy not only saw but even send a photo and sketch of my possible target for next month. And I changed my target to Maiden's Tower. So, we can also say that Kathy is the "precognative" dream winner of the next month during May and changed the target of June.

Congraculations everybody - ilkin


Ilkin - WOW!!! My mind is spinning at the thought!! BUT also laughing - no wander things get muddled in my mind - if I can find something pre-cognitively, and then the finding itself, causes the object not to appear

I've only been in two of these challenges - and you Ilkin and you Laura - have both been amazing in your choice of target and your linking it to such depths and your generous and loving and supportive interpretations (I so much agree with Rita and Kay and ??) - that this is just the right environment to learn.
Kathy

Date: Jun 12, 2004 on 02:04 p.m.
Curt
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36. Re:Why did this RV challenge work so well?
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kathy turner (Jun 12, 2004 01:57 p.m.):

CURT - do you mean here along the North Anatolian Fault?



No, here in New England. But maybe Ilkin can tell us if they happen in Turkey also.

What are the strange lights and sounds? Do they still appear? Do they appear at all fault lines or just at the very intense ones. And what about other areas - did Shamans use the meeting of plates?
Have you published anything on this - if so where can I read it?


Jim Mavor and Byron Dix published about this in Manitou, which is still in print from Inner Traditions, Inc. I don't know whether they only appear at major fault lines. They are the result of the abrasion of the tectonic plates against one another, the friction produces strange effects which the shamans sought.


And oh what is "vater"
Kathy

I was punning on your "mutter, mutter" , which in German means "mother" while "vater" means "father".

Curt

Date: Jun 12, 2004 on 02:50 p.m.
elif
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37. Re:Why did this RV challenge work so well?
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No, here in New England. But maybe Ilkin can tell us if they happen in Turkey also.

What are the strange lights and sounds? Do they still appear? Do they appear at all fault lines or just at the very intense ones. And what about other areas - did Shamans use the meeting of plates?
Have you published anything on this - if so where can I read it?

Dear Curt and Kathy,

I am not sure what you are talking about, what shamans do or not (if there are any still- at least they don't make themselfs known) but yes, people see lights nd hear sounds time to time. There are two major and may minor falts in Turkey. The one I am on is the North Anatolian Fault (which I asked to Psi- Angels last month, when will the next big earthquake be). They say the reason of the lights are eruption of some gases (radon etc? ). At some places, especially around the areas with natural baths etc time to time the volume and structure of the water changes. Sometimes there are flames on water sources, lakes, ponds etc. or on earth. When you light a match close to the surface of water or earth it gets flame. Something similar happen in the sea too and than many dead fish come to surface or shores.

Once I asked and read much about "Lay Lines" which we also have here but I don't remember much about it now. - ilkin

Date: Jun 13, 2004 on 05:11 a.m.
Curt
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38. Re:Why did this RV challenge work so well?
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elif (Jun 13, 2004 05:11 a.m.):

Dear Curt and Kathy,

I am not sure what you are talking about, what shamans do or not (if there are any still- at least they don't make themselfs known) but yes, people see lights nd hear sounds time to time. There are two major and may minor falts in Turkey. The one I am on is the North Anatolian Fault (which I asked to Psi- Angels last month, when will the next big earthquake be). They say the reason of the lights are eruption of some gases (radon etc? ). At some places, especially around the areas with natural baths etc time to time the volume and structure of the water changes. Sometimes there are flames on water sources, lakes, ponds etc. or on earth. When you light a match close to the surface of water or earth it gets flame. Something similar happen in the sea too and than many dead fish come to surface or shores.

Once I asked and read much about "Lay Lines" which we also have here but I don't remember much about it now. - ilkin


Ilkin -
Thanks for the information! I am not surprised -- I would think that this kind of thing happens wherever plates slide over one another. There was a talk at a conference I attended a few years ago (maybe it was ASD -- I'm not sure!) in which archaeologists working at Delphi, which is in the same system of faults as yours, had discovered the volcanic vents through which the gas (possibly ethene, which can be intoxicating) came up and the artificial pipes the Greeks used to bring it to the sanctuary where the Delphic priestess sat. Also, somewhere in Ionia there is a cave also dedicated to Apollo from which noxious vapors (probably carbon dioxide) emerge, proving fatal to anyone foolish enough to explore it! It would be interesting to explore whether Poseidon is related to dreaming in the way that we already know Apollo is -- since he is the ruler of earthquakes.

As for shamans -- in traditional Native American society they are emerging, thanks to Federal legislation guaranteeing them religious freedom. I have heard that Australia has some similar legislation. Two good recent sources on this are Sacred Sites, Sacred Places edited by Carmichael, Hubert, Reeves, and Schanche, and Shamans/Neo-Shamans: Ecstasy, Alternative Archaeologies and Contemporary Pagans by Robert Wallis. Both explore the re-emergence of shamanic traditions about special places, world-wide. Of course, some people claiming to be shamans are not the genuine article, and one must discriminate carefully, but I have encountered some practitioners who appear to know what they are about.

Curt

Date: Jun 13, 2004 on 06:51 a.m.
Kay
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39. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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It would be interesting to explore whether Poseidon is related to dreaming in the way that we already know Apollo is -- since he is the ruler of earthquakes.

Well, Poseidon became Neptune in the Roman system, and in astrology is said to rule dreams.

Date: Jun 13, 2004 on 07:28 a.m.
sao
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40. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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The problems of judging are strikingly obvious here, not entirely sure I would've judged my own submissions as any more remarkable than several others. Even though dreams and waking imagery/revelations are obviously often packaged in highly symbolic or indirect references, I balk a little at judging the results in such extrapolated terms--personally I'm always looking for something more concrete, and I know such direct hits are possible because I get them all the time--just usually not in the context of such 'contests'--lol.

Having said that, the subjective feeling of my dream submission (particularly, as opposed to the waking submission) was, in retrospect at least, quite resonant with the target. Also, though I did "guess" the sender was Ilkin--or at least had a strong feeling that the target was in that part of the world, I made an earnest attempt, as usual, to dismiss such guesses from interfering with the pure imagery. It's hard to know, when guarding one's self from coloring the results with guesses, when one is filtering out info pertinent to the target... This fine line seems to be the crux of the biscuit, as I'm sure most of you know.

Anyway, I deeply appreciate that this has become a regular exercise, and also that the targets and senders are "rotating"--some of you may recall that very early on as a visitor to this forum I made a number of appeals for this very situation: more RV exercises, more often, more senders. I'm thrilled to see the concept blossoming.

We collectively rock.

Date: Jun 13, 2004 on 12:59 p.m.
kathy turner
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41. Re:Why did this RV challenge work so well?
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elif (Jun 13, 2004 05:11 a.m.):
No, here in New England. But maybe Ilkin can tell us if they happen in Turkey also.

What are the strange lights and sounds?

Dear Curt and Kathy,

yes, people see lights nd hear sounds time to time. There are two major and may minor falts in Turkey. The one I am on is the North Anatolian Fault (which I asked to Psi- Angels last month, when will the next big earthquake be). They say the reason of the lights are eruption of some gases (radon etc? ). At some places, especially around the areas with natural baths etc time to time the volume and structure of the water changes. Sometimes there are flames on water sources, lakes, ponds etc. or on earth. When you light a match close to the surface of water or earth it gets flame. Something similar happen in the sea too and than many dead fish come to surface or shores.


Ilkin and Curt: thank you Ilkin for your account of light and sound along the North Anatolian Fault - knowledge just flows and grows when we can talk so easily across countries and across disciplines. And thank you Curt for your knowledge of fault lines and sites of Psi power. How fascinating to have an archaeologist here - and one like you with such interest and knowledge - it is quite perfect for adding to our thinking of dreams.
AND Ed - Is "low geomagnetic activity" related in anyway to this evidence of high fault line activity?
Oh I love the "early" days of knowledge when knowledge is shared with such playfulness - imagine if all knowledge acquisition was like this - not competitive and non possessive! AAAAAAAAH
Kathy

Date: Jun 13, 2004 on 03:32 p.m.
Curt
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42. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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sao (Jun 13, 2004 12:59 p.m.):
We collectively rock.

You ain't seen nothin' yet!!!! Stay tuned!

Curt

Date: Jun 13, 2004 on 04:43 p.m.
Kay
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43. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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Ed said:


However let me clarify, I do not look for an explanation, so much as practical ways to optimize future experiments.

For example what makes for an optimal psi-target? Which targets seem the easiest to see, and what characteristics make them so?


OK, I’ve been pondering this for a couple of days and I don’t see a contradiction here. I would have thought that to attempt to explain the subjective experience would be a first step towards isolating those factors you are looking for. Of course, it would require that more of us engage with this. Maybe you’re a few steps ahead of the rest of us, Ed?

For example, both Rita and I (and I had written my first post offline, so did not read Rita’s until after I had posted) suggested that an emotional connection would be conducive, even if we had placed the emphasis on different aspects, and we had both mentioned the aspect of ‘camaraderie’ and a ‘positive and allowing atmosphere’. Surely such factors must be part of what one would look to identify in this context?

I could make another observation, which is that the two targets so far have been rather complex ones, not only physical targets at a specific location, but also carrying or holding a mythological quality. As Ilkin said, if not in precisely these words, that level of complexity would allow viewers and dreamers of different ‘perceptive temperaments’ to tune in, making for many hits. In one way this would make such a target optimal, but then on the other hand one might argue that it is too wide and causes the spread of hits to stray too far from the centre. They’re all hits, but none in the bull’s eye, if you like. Is this what you are after?

I’m thinking that there may be some distinctions to be made in such a case, as to what are the ‘rules’ of the particular game we’re playing here? Do we grade hits based on location and description, or on a tuning in of themes associated with the target? Are we having blurred lines between the physical target and the sender? Can a target, and its quality or potential for being an optimal target, be isolated from the sender? Would we get different results on the same target with different senders?

Personally I think that it would be too soon, to start making too many distinctions. Getting a hit, even an indirect hit, I believe strengthens our belief in ourselves and I would think that the group and its individuals are in a phase of building confidence and learning from experience and each other, about ways or modes of perception and interpretation. Some might find they are ‘better’ or more comfortable with themes, while others pick up on the physical aspects of a target more easily. But over time, yes, it would be interesting to experiment with perhaps narrowing the focus, and defining beforehand what will constitute a ‘fantastic’ hit on each occasion: finding the geographical location, or attuning to a theme associated with it.

I read an account a while back of a psychic’s training, where her teacher refused to give her any indication as to whether her readings were correct or not. Partly he didn’t want to feed her ego, but more importantly, he wanted to avoid that she got conditioned to being told when she was right. Instead he sought to build her confidence in her inner attunement. I think this has some validity, but I think it’s too extreme. In my personal experience it has not been until this last year when I have for the first time been getting feedback on my dreams and impressions from others that I have even begun to develop. Before then a psychic hit seemed like a stroke of magic, utterly unrelated to me, and for the most part I simply assumed that all that stuff was just in my head…


If we want to progress further - to the point of developing training programs where people can learn to have reliably accurate (rather than occasionally accurate) psi

You can sign me up to such a training programme!

Kay

Date: Jun 14, 2004 on 07:03 a.m.
Harry Bosma
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44. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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Most of the possible target locations don't have much interesting history, let alone associations with myths and legends. As long as we have such targets, I say go for whatever you pick up. We don't know what works best.

Somebody getting a _perfect_ description of the location will in my opinion probaby beat somebody finding a theme, simply because the goal of the exercise is to find the location. However, a good description of related themes can also be used to pinpoint the location, and that will outperform a less_than_perfect description of the location.

Fantasizing... I can imagine that at some point we hand over all the submissions to an native in the area of the location (other than the target provider), and ask to determine which of the special locations in that area the submissions refer to. If that can be done, judging becomes a question of selecting the minimum number of submissions needed to most clearly determine the location.

Date: Jun 14, 2004 on 10:29 a.m.
Laura Atkinson
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45. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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Hi, I'd like to pipe in really quickly here.

When in the process of choosing the first target, I was not thinking of the mythological aspect of it. I chose it because of it's unique artistic and sculptural qualities. I thought people would tune into the shape, the form, the area, the steps and plateaus.

However, while concentrating on the target towards the end of the sesion, I began to think people may hit on the history behind the artwork, and felt it may be important.

Although I am very impressed by the aspects of so many of the "hits", abstract and otherwise of both contests so far....I personally was thinking more along of lines of what the target area looked like...the structure, landscape, etc.

It makes me think what if I had chosen the Russian Submarine....it doesn't have any mythological qualities, although it has some history. Would people tune into the history instead of the place? Does that qualify as a remote viewing, or psi experience? Or if the person names the place AND the history...is that considered a "direct hit". Hmmmmm. Questions questions.

It will be interesting to see what types of hits will happen if future targets will include basic places like: a front porch, a computer room, basement laundry room.

Just my thoughts of the day,
Laura

Date: Jun 14, 2004 on 12:39 p.m.
Ed K
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46. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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Harry Bosma (Jun 14, 2004 10:29 a.m.):
Most of the possible target locations don't have much interesting history, let alone associations with myths and legends.

Hi Harry -

Although I agree that this seems true in an absolute sense, on the other hand, tens of thousands of potential RV target sites do have associations with myths and legends, which gives a very large pool of potential targets to choose from if such sites seem more visible to psi. Think, for example, of the vast number of known archeological, religious, or sacred sites. Perhaps Dr. Rupert Shedrakes Morphogenetic Fields Theory plays a role in this.


As long as we have such targets, I say go for whatever you pick up. We don't know what works best.

Well we may not know, but we do have lots of data from RV and from psi studies that if properly compared and analyzed could take us a long way towards finding what does work best, at least in a generic way.

Each of us as individuals still needs to compile their own data set, as far as what works best for us, and as far as what kind of target information (structural, emotional, thematic, verbal) usually comes through for each of us most clearly and reliably. This of course, can change, with practice, or simply through trying out different methods or procedures until we find which ones work best for which purposes or for certain types of information.

Now for practical RVing, clearly one can not restrict targets to simply the "easy" ones. But for training purposes, as I wrote earlier, if you want to train people to learn to shoot arrows, it makes sense to make sure you begin by providing them with targets that they can easily see! In an effective training program, only later, as skill improves, would more difficult targets gradually enter the mix.

Ed

Date: Jun 15, 2004 on 07:10 a.m.
Curt
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47. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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Ed K (Jun 15, 2004 07:10 a.m.):
Now for practical RVing, clearly one can not restrict targets to simply the "easy" ones. But for training purposes, as I wrote earlier, if you want to train people to learn to shoot arrows, it makes sense to make sure you begin by providing them with targets that they can easily see! In an effective training program, only later, as skill improves, would more difficult targets gradually enter the mix.

Ed


I agree with Ed, and I think that we should contemplate a gradual ratcheting up of the targets as we get more comfortable with our abilities to do this. I like the idea of using targets with lots of "morphic resonance", to use Sheldrake's term.

Curt

Date: Jun 15, 2004 on 08:12 a.m.
Kay
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48. Re:June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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Kay (Jun 13, 2004 07:28 a.m.):

It would be interesting to explore whether Poseidon is related to dreaming in the way that we already know Apollo is -- since he is the ruler of earthquakes.

Well, Poseidon became Neptune in the Roman system, and in astrology is said to rule dreams.



Curt -

I was just looking something up and stumbled on the entry for 'psi' - the Greek letter looks very much like a trident, which also happens to be the symbol for Neptune. And then I remembered this thread/post.

Kay

Date: Jul 01, 2004 on 01:41 p.m.
June's Remote Viewing challenge - results
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